Skip to content

DISCUSSIONS on “Rules for online games in HoMM3 and formulas for calculating player rating.”

#1913
Auto-translated
R55Max
First, I want to emphasize that draws should simply not be considered in such situations, because this introduces the character of agreements into the game (there is much to be said about this, so let's skip it). In group stages of arranged games, this can be very easily manipulated; citing the terrain, one could post a draw that advances either the person who agreed to the game or their friend to the next round.
Can you give a concrete example of a group where two players can only reach an agreement through a draw, and cannot agree via 1-0 or 0-1?
Blue does not lose, but there is no point in retreating since nothing threatens him, meaning the position on the general map remains with Blue because he occupied it first! And the Red hero only tried to take his place but cannot, meaning he lost!
I will repeat once more — I propose that the essence of the game be considered the destruction of the opponent. In a specific combat situation, everything is proven only by the destruction of the opponent. If one hero stands on a cell and another enters that cell on their turn, then two heroes are standing on the cell. And one of them must destroy the other to keep the cell for themselves.
If neither could do this, it means the game has reached a stalemate and the fair outcome is a draw.
Nevertheless, I agree that higher requirements should be placed on the attacker. Because if, in the end, the attacker is the one creating the stalemate, then it looks exactly as you write. He arrived. He cannot occupy the game cell and only runs around. Then we don't care about him — I (the defender) was here and I am still here. And the attacker proved nothing. The defender moves freely within the position, while the attacker skulks and is afraid to get in the way. The attacker came to prove that he has the right to occupy this position, but he failed to prove it, so his defeat seems logical.
But if the defender creates the stalemate, it looks different. The attacker arrived, took the position, and the defender runs around (or in my case, hid in the bushes) and doesn't want to leave. Now that is a real stalemate. The attacker proved that he can come and take the position, and the defender cannot stop him. But the attacker cannot completely destroy the defender either. This is a total deadlock in which, essentially, no one deserves victory in this battle.
We can repeat the same things in a circle indefinitely, but I suggest you just understand my position once and for all and calm down. No destruction of the opponent — everything else is unconvincing. You arrived at this cell first? Well done. But that means nothing. Now I have arrived, let's figure out who is stronger.
You won't convince me with repetitions. We have already heard and understood each other.
And again, your vacillations lead to the following inconsistency:
Failed to break the gates — lost, meaning the walls shielded the defender, meaning the reason is that the superior attacking forces cannot get close. In essence, this is no different from the defender being saved by the terrain in a battle outside a Castle!
I don't feel any vacillations or inconsistencies yet. There is a difference, and it's very simple.
In this game, Castles are key strongpoints. And the rules for storming them are unambiguous. There are walls. Land units can pass through the walls without taking losses only when the gates are broken.
A player attacking a Castle, if they have no other decisive arguments to win the battle other than infantry (or if those arguments ran out), must break the walls or gates in 100 out of 100 cases to win the battle.
If they didn't do this — there is nothing to talk about. They messed up. 100%.
And to move inside the Castle and back without taking damage, specifically the gates must be broken.

And I will repeat one thought that is currently in a doubtful status. Does HD+ now change the seed before the battle or not? I understood that it does. And if it does, then nothing can be verified anymore — stalemate terrain can generate where such terrain didn't exist before.
https://www.twitch.tv/grando__