Time is money, or are you going to waste it?

Message from Dirty_Player:
On July 30, 2009, the HMM3 Lighter program was invented by vbn.......and one fine day the HD-mod appeared from baratorch......but on our forum, the info appearance is dated October 1, 2010........Then an illogical and incomprehensible process began for me... THE TIME PER TURN STARTED TO INCREASE. WTF??? How? Why?

I’ll start by saying that this question is indeed important and the topic is 100% relevant; I thought about it myself, and now you created the thread, so let’s talk (I’ll be brief)...

So, when I first registered on HeroesWorld, for a while I heard the word "template" from everyone and didn’t know what it was. When I found out, I realized that smka is its name. When I started playing while looking at the scheme, I can say that I didn’t look at other schemes because everyone played it, and the PROS at that time played the great ones named 8mm6 and 6lm10. As a result, there were about 7 main game templates back then (smka, mm6, 6lm, Jebus Cross, mini, and well, Panic with Balance). Personally, playing with players, I very easily beat newbies like me (except for a couple of players) without trying particularly hard to learn anything. Newbies were real noobs, and those with a year or more of experience weren’t much stronger—that’s 100% certain, which can’t be said about today’s!!!

What happens next? The mod appears, a reevaluation of values begins, a transition to the mod’s functionality. Then, over these 2 years, there’s a huge surge of streams, which dramatically increase the learning speed of newbies at least in the "basics of Heroes." Then, from 2012 onwards, new templates are uploaded and mastered, that’s all!!! /topic/8777/. Among other things, kalababa organizes tournaments, and in general, many diverse tournaments have taken place. The result of all this diverse Heroic life is a transition to game quality, and oddly enough, the choice fell on the timer.

Reasons
I will now try to clarify the position I hold on this issue. Of course, it’s obvious that the more time given per turn, the higher the quality of the game.

Yes.

However, there are several downsides to this:

1. Dragging out. Increasing the time per turn drags out the game.......If before you could play several tournaments, now players simply can’t handle it.

Yes.

2. Game quality. Many use this argument. However, watching game streams, which are abundant now, I came to the conclusion that there isn’t that much quality. People play on 10 minutes and really sit and zone out; they actually don’t have enough of those 10 minutes.

Yes, that happens too, BUT overall, turns become higher quality, but you have to spend time for that. The fact that someone can play fast is one thing, but if you give that same player, say, 30 minutes more time, I’m sure they would rethink some moves and improve either the battle quality or the pace.

Personally, I remember players like....

Despite the class of past players, the forum now lives by those who remain—you, me, Uncle Pete, Aunt Mote—and others play, and we need to start from here. There are plenty of strong players now too, but everything happens within different limits.

3. Spectacle. Many complain that Heroes is not an esports discipline, that games drag on for hours, and it’s boring to watch...

I agree, it decreases, but only online.
There is a solution: for viewers, organize tournaments on 200% on an M map or watch compilations of game videos on large templates, where you can skip 5-10 minutes. But on the other hand, spectacle increases when a person, waiting a long time for their turn, shifts the conversation to off-topic subjects, and it’s interesting to hear their opinions, even if unrelated to the game, but concerning Heroes (this is a digression, but it does add a certain charm).

The ability to quickly make the most correct decisions better than the opponent is also part of skill.

The ability to generally make more correct decisions is also part of skill, and speed—the time limit for making the most correct decision—doesn’t mean there should be no time at all, but it does mean that the less time there is, the less time for the most correct decision. And at the moment, the speed is such that it forced this topic to be created.

5. The history of time in chess. Before the advent of clocks, games could drag on for a day or more until someone wore the other down by attrition. With the advent of clocks in the 19th century, the problem was solved. I won’t go into details, I’ll just give the timeline.

In SoD, there are clocks, don’t compare—there, time is given per turn for touching a single piece and moving it to another square; ALL OTHER TIME IS ONLY FOR THINKING ABOUT THE MOVE!

Now in chess, blitz and rapid are more popular. For the reasons of lower time investment and greater spectacle.

Popularity is just a trend and nothing more. Today it’s one thing (like 6 min 2 years ago), tomorrow it’s another (like today’s timer), but that doesn’t mean classical chess is bad; quite the opposite.

I’m not suggesting to act rashly, I’m just suggesting trying to reduce game time, at least in seasonals. Maybe later we’ll get to tournaments.

Not at all. We need to start with tournaments, and then implement it into seasonals, because the forum doesn’t bend to a little tournament, but the tournament is on the forum.


Regarding the chess timer:
In my opinion, this will be the most imbalanced gimmick for SoD!
What are chess and the chess timer? It’s a tribute to equal amounts of time in absolutely identical conditions without external factors, except for the starting color, and all tactics stem from that. White moves, Black tries to figure them out and defend, at best counterattack. All actions of both players are confined solely to a battle of minds. Each sees the opponent’s move and sees what they can do, but the one who sees further or who doesn’t make a mistake wins. In Heroes, this is nowhere close.
We play with different towns, heroes, armies, different opponents, we have a ton of various external influences, plus we don’t see the board at all! Imagine a large board covered by a veil of darkness, a different number of pieces (heroes), and they move any old how! What does the chess timer have to do with this???:confused: :confused:
With a chess timer, someone really needs to kill zombies with griffins, while the opponent will spank twice as many golems with grand elites and spend less time. And if there are many such long guards (for griffins), then why should you spend more time on elementary but longer battles? The chess timer is only relevant in a mirror match with identical towns and perfectly equal (mirror) placements of everything on the map; otherwise, there’s no chess equivalence.

And if you consider that one person gets heavy slow units, and the army gets drained (e.g., grand elites or marksmen killed by morale on the first day), then the chess timer will melt in a geometric progression, becoming more and more unfair just because the battles are longer, even if they are winnable.

Message from Ihtiandr:
In my opinion, the argument like "more time per turn – higher game quality" is nonsense. The same game quality as on 10 minutes can easily be shown on 4 as well.

That’s impossible! Either you have to be not very smart to play the same on 4 minutes per turn as on 10.


Above I wrote my view on the disagreements about the timer and the impossibility of implementing it in SoD. But the solution, oddly enough, is obvious:

- Organize SoD tournaments with less SoD-style time; I think this would be the most correct approach. If you liked 200% with 4 min, make a tournament on XL with 4 minutes and that’s it, what’s the problem??? I’ll play myself:D

Added after 9 minutes

Message from KobRa_RR:
If you want to play StarCraft or Quake, then go play, don’t agitate others... Many find it convenient to do their own things during the opponent’s turn (family stuff, work, playing, etc.), many find it inconvenient.

Also true, Heroes haven’t grown into a professional discipline.

Message from LeBron:
I’ll give a +1 to Kostyan; half of what he wrote is our yesterday’s Skype conversation..........
In my opinion, the thread very clearly states both the proposal and the reasons why it should be listened to.

Well written, but it’s not all lumped together.

Message from c0nn3c71nkK.ppL:
It’s high time to throw together a tournament with small control. Haven’t had one in a while)

:smile01: