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I read the last page and decided not to get too involved in the debate, I'll just say one thing: it's not the Orcs or the Undead who win or lose, but the people who control the Gameplay. Whether a race is strong or weak in each specific case depends on the degree of skill of the PLAYER. I personally play online as Orcs and in 8 out of 10 cases I crush the Undead, but in 2 out of 10, when I get crushed, I realize that the Undead, in the hands of a skilled player, are a force to be reckoned with, and I regret my own helplessness and self-destruction:smile04: