kolotok
Map: Never Give Up (Iron Man Edition) / Никогда не сдавайся / 永不言弃(铁人版）
Author: unknown
Walkthrough Overview
While sorting through a collection of Chinese maps some time ago, I noticed this one and finally found the time to complete it.
Unfortunately, the author is unknown. The map description is entirely in characters; one can only find fragments of nicknames: sunkist1982 ky800303 huajianlei laoqia 211415 lcdlurker fan1999 chendongko chartery xxgxby01 chengxia. I assume these are testers or co-authors of the map, but I couldn't find these folks via Google.
As indicated in the description, there is a normal version and a BT version. At a glance, the normal version differs by having Caitlin as the starting hero (in the BT version she cannot be saved, unlike in the normal version). Guards differ, the location with the enemy hero Aenain differs, etc. Of course, we are playing the BT variant.
I'll say right away that I liked the map; I'd give it an 8.5 out of 10. There are no fancy new ideas here, but the map isn't corridor-like (except perhaps at the beginning), it's full of dynamics and contact with the enemy. The general gist of the map is that you first need to choose and free your main hero, gear up at the starting respawn, explore the nearby surroundings, and only then decide in what order to travel, whom to kill, how to develop, etc. After that, complete freedom of action begins, which is a huge plus for the map and the main thing I like about it.
Even considering the small downsides (don't let the amount of text on this topic scare you) mentioned below, the map is quite good.
Pros of the map
1) Choice of main hero; you can choose who you want to suffer with on the map, depending on preference.
2) A fairly brisk start for the first 5-6 weeks. Then an even more brisk continuation during months 2 and 3.
3) A very large degree of freedom: where to go, whom to kill, which magic to seize first and which later, which artifacts to take, where to get an army — it's all a matter of choice. Do whatever works. This is what I love about such maps and why I'm ready to forgive a lot. Even the "mandatory" program for months 1-2 can be completed in different ways.
4) There is no need to generate a special save; any layout can be beaten, although the map is objectively not easy. Although, of course, I did generate the map to get a certain artifact for the Book of Earth, plus to get a positive layout in the conservatories at the starting respawn (like cons 2, 2, 3), because cons-ones mean no army, and the first cons-4 or 3 simply cannot be taken; from the army, you get only 1 chaos hydra and a couple of Wizards.
Bugs, flaws, uncertainties
1) It's unclear how to solve the logistics puzzle of day 3. Our main hero, even after getting Logistics and Pathfinding from an event, still falls 100 moves short of the ship, resulting in their death. I tried many different methods, but never solved the riddle. I suspect the map might have been designed for the Chinese market, where it is fashionable to leave a hero without an army/units, and perhaps this allows them to move 1-2 tiles across swamp without penalty, but I couldn't achieve this in the current HD Complete version. Therefore, I had to use the editor to replace 1 swamp tile with grass and start on the modified map.
2) A more significant flaw is game freezing. At some point, when the enemy Dessa is killed and we buy her back. Problems then begin during turn transitions, which I haven't seen before. An enemy tea-colored hero reaches a certain spot and the map freezes, as if he tried to cast something. Dancing around with enabling/disabling SoD_SP, HD+, and loading in an older version of Heroes didn't help. What helps—don't laugh—is changing the routes of our heroes, mainly Dessa. If Dessa with 28k moves spends the night in a castle (specifically on top of the castle, in the upper slot) without an army, or if she has an army but is on the other side of the map divided by a teleport, the AI starts moving in a different direction and everything becomes OK. If I'm not mistaken, the map is "cured" if you don't buy back Dessa at all, but who could resist the temptation? Another time, the freeze problem during turn transition occurs not with the tea player, but with the purple player, at the opposite end of the map. I have never observed such an "effect" on any map before, and it was very frightening during the playthrough. A similar problem occurred when many enemies were roaming everywhere, and it seems the enemy hero simply didn't know where to go, causing the game to freeze. For about 1-2 weeks, the problem was clearly evident when Dessa went to buy external dwellings of dragons (as if the AI got offended: "Since you bought growth, I won't play" LOL). When the number of enemy heroes decreased, the problem disappeared.
3) The third point, this time unjustifiably making the game easier, lies in the garrisons available to the AI with guards of 9999 dragons, titans, etc. At some point, Dessa and another powerful hero approach such garrisons, stand there for 1-2 days, and then try to push through and guaranteed die. As a result, without putting in any effort, we lose a powerful enemy, can buy back Dessa, and the game goes off-plan clearly in our favor. Don't make the player's suffering easier! And there is no way to counter this.
4) The fourth minus is the placement of the Grail within reach of all players. We are still far from opening the puzzle map (although we could technically dig it up knowing where it is, but that's cheating), while the AI, having opened the pillars, starts diligently digging for it with 2-3 heroes and digs it up—what a jerk! I would have traditionally closed the Grail behind a quest pillar.
Only the freeze bug is critical; the others are insignificant.
I can also note that about a dozen ideas, if not parts of separate locations, echo other Chinese maps I've reviewed previously; it's unclear who ripped off whom :)
And traditional for such maps is the "weakness test," where in the location near hero Aenain there is an opportunity to easily open a pillar for 1000 azure and 1000 fairy [dragons] + take angel wings (shoutout to the "Jedi Counterattack" map), but in decent heroic society, such gifts are, of course, declined. For fun, you can use the editor to remove our garrison of 9999 creatures, then open the pillar in-game, give the AI the wings, and try to play like that! :) hahaha!
«Cast»
The start of the map involves choosing one of the imprisoned specialist heroes — Orrin, Tazar, Aiden, Thorgrim. The easiest playthrough, in my opinion, is with Tazar, especially at the start and the very end of the game. With Tazar, we get slightly fewer perks: he cannot open the pillar to the mana doubler, nor can we open the pillars to the event for obtaining an army [although technically you can "mess around" and lure one of the other specified heroes there just to open the pillar]. Many battles, especially attacks on castles, are a breeze with Tazar. Tazar took down bosses Nilu, Xiron, Zidar, etc., without any particular problems.
Given the large number of snipers and Wizards, Orrin can also be a very good option later in terms of damage to enemies.
Aiden and Thorgrim are more difficult options, in my view. However, Thorgrim specifically has one guardian with an additional army at an event, plus he can hold his own against mini-bosses — magic specialists of level 868 with insane magic damage.
In short, there are no strict requirements for a specific hero; you can choose anyone.
The starting hero Caitlin in the BT version is filled with stupid skills, and after the prison opens, she simply won't have time to run away and will be killed. But in the normal version of the map, she has Logistics and no other trash skills, which can be leveled up at a chest specially placed nearby :) Therefore, upon opening the prison, Caitlin can manage to run back behind the red tent, and a bit later she can be moved to join all your other heroes, adding another hero to our pool, which greatly helps with logistics, map control, etc.
Our main hero can then free Ivor with the training skill, who will help us until the end of the map. After killing Dragon and Gelu, they can be bought back to become great shooters (I found out about this a bit later than needed, slowing the pace). These heroes can level up and handle simple battles.
After some time, Dessa level 868 with 28 thousand movement points may run onto the map. It is very hard to escape her, she knows the ship call, and she is hard to kill. However, if you manage to do so (or if she kills herself on a garrison), she can also be bought back. After that, map control is achieved quickly. Dessa can reach almost any castle where the main hero teleports to finish off the enemy, who is just waiting for us there. This also allows Dessa to capture castles with growth and replenish our army. Dessa lacks Water, Wisdom, and some other skills, but has immense movement range and stats of 99 without artifacts. Pure cheating, basically.
Other heroes are unavailable for buyout.
There is only one external tavern on the map; access to it for buying back Gelu and Dragon is obtained after killing Aenain. There are several other taverns in castles, but they are either guarded by a garrison or currently inaccessible. Therefore, heroes must not be lost, at least at the beginning. Later, this allows for tricking the enemy, especially those with dragons in their army.
Skills for Main
Considering Tazar's preset skills (Wisdom, Water, Earth, Armor, Log, Pathfinding), I took Intelligence (mandatory, since there is no mana doubler, and I actually finished some battles with 0 mana), and there is an option to choose one of the skills around point 24-14-1: Air, Attack, Archery, or Fire. I took Fire, not really knowing what would happen next.
I can say right away that almost any chosen skill is not a mistake.
Fire allows blinding the enemy in a number of cases, and then hitting without retaliation + blindness. Also, enhanced Berserk on shooters in the second half of the game helps significantly.
But throughout the game, taking Attack for Tazar (as well as any other hero) would not be a mistake, as for the first 2-3 months we deal damage in a wall-to-wall format, not to mention final battles where one must endure and strike back. The Archery skill will also definitely pay off, as we will have 2 shooting stacks — Wizards and snipers. Perhaps the weakest choice is Air (especially if you fail to seize the "Destructive Ray" spell and the AI learns it). But if you play as Aiden, an intellectual mage, you can take Air.
For all other heroes except the main, skills are preset. Yes, if you manage to save Caitlin on the easy difficulty of the map, you can give her whatever you need.
Army
Behind quest pillars, there is an opportunity to take additional external dwellings of creatures, but there aren't enough artifacts for everyone, so you'll have to choose three guardians, in my opinion. I took Archangels (highly recommended), Titans, and Bears. Though you could take Arch Devils or Gorgons.
Our army composition is inconsistent. At the very beginning of the game, the army can only be replenished by taking conservatories at the starting respawn and placing a human castle at the starting respawn beforehand to combine angels from the conservatory with castle growth. Essentially, only Archangels are our army for the first weeks/months. Shooters and monks should ideally be bought back and not lost; later they can be converted into snipers and Wizards.
By killing Dragon at the very beginning, and shortly after the quest hero Aenain, you can open the pillar to the tavern and buy back Dragon there to get Wizards, and later — Gelu. In short, once these heroes are bought back, the army composition improves significantly.
From a certain point, we can start buying dragons — Azure, Sulfur, Fairy, Crystal — in special "incubators", 20 of each per week! With map control, in a month you can get roughly 80 Azures, 80 Fairies, 80 Sulfurs. The only question is having enough money (you can boost income at captured Ramparts). In short, from a certain moment, the army is significantly strengthened by dragons. Initially, I bought only Fairies and Azures, and later Sulfurs. Crystals don't "fit" into our army slots (we still need to fit Archangels, 2 shooter stacks, and someone else as needed — Devils, Bears, or Gorgons).
There are also several places on the map where you can obtain an army, for example, as a result of killing a hero or neutrals. The sooner this is done, the faster power is gained to kill enemy heroes. So the arsenal of units to play with is very wide. We only experience a creature deficit at the beginning.
In my playthrough, cows were only needed in 1-2 battles. If I had taken 600 of them earlier via the quest, perhaps the completion would have been faster. Bears also came in handy as meat shields. The main striking stacks were shooters under Berserk and Archangels, later — Fairy and Azure dragons.
Castles
With the starting save, there are no strict rules on who to choose. But I would definitely advise taking castles for Archangels and Fanatics with shooters, as well as, if possible, Ramparts for shooters and Titan castles. Another option is Bears or Inferno. But that's a matter of taste. As far as I understand, we can only generate a dungeon with a doubler in a place that becomes accessible almost at the very end of the map. Ramparts are desirable for boosting income.
Completion Strategy
In the first week, we need to manage to flee from the enemy to a new respawn, and there gear up with a free Hydra, take conservatories, 2 castles, then kill the active enemy at the respawn and get their 3rd castle. By 121, I managed to capture a 2nd castle with Archangel growth, captured and built angels in another castle on the 2nd week, and on 131 fought back the first castle from the AI with growth. In short, during the first couple of weeks, you need to capture the initial respawn and secure growth, which will be needed for the battle with the quest hero Dragon, whose death grants a ship call and a resurrection scroll (which remains relevant until the end of the game!).
Once this is done, there's no need to stay at the respawn — get in a boat and sail west, kill weak heroes, learn spells in the process, turn around and return via the northern part of the map, learning Water Walking along the way and opening the white tent.
Replenish forces at the initial respawn, essentially only with Archangels, descend into the underground and go kill the quest hero Aenain in flax. After this, we can open the tavern to buy back Dragon, as well as receive black dragons for this, with which we can already kill fairy dragons and learn anti-magic.
In short, instead of sitting at the respawn, you need to briskly run wherever possible to learn as much magic as possible, replenish the army, and seize map control.
Next, there is a choice of what to do: you can fight stationary heroes for magic scrolls (Forcefield, Blind, Berserk, Prayer, etc.), or try to collect all pieces of the Cursed Armor (great help in battles later). But this freedom is illusory, because literally by the 3rd month, enemies visit tents and start running all over the map. Those we can — we kill; those we can't (which is most of them) — we avoid. All this greatly restricts freedom of movement.
A bit later, the logisticians Kyr and Gunnar will be released, and even later semi-bosses — mages of level 868 with insane damage and striking spells, and eventually Dessa with 28k movement points. Controlling the map will be very difficult. But once that is achieved, you can gradually deal with all enemies. As a rule, they consolidate their forces into 4-5 bosses, while the rest can be picked off relatively easily.
At some point, Tazar can visit the stat boosters, but there's no urgent need to visit all of them, as they are often placed at the edges of respawns.
In my playthrough, I first killed much stronger stationary bosses in castles without tricks (Nila, Xiron, Zidar, Fafnir), and only then finished off the roaming super-mages of level 868, after tricking them a bit by burning them with dragons.
Gundula died the easiest/funniest; her 500 azures were wiped in one hit by 900 titans or 500 orange ones.
Overall, battles with enemies are diverse: some killed in the castle, some lured out, some in the field, some using terrain.
Timings
116 standing near the quest pillar before Deemer,
117 freed Ivor
123 – 2nd castle Dunwol captured (Deemer took the 1st from us), coordinates 9-9-1, we have 5 archs (growth + cons),
125 – 3rd castle Alexandretta captured (37-18-1), building what's missing to max out angels by the end of the week
127 – castle 22-38-1 recaptured, Deemer killed, in Alexandretta spent last remaining money on angels; including the captured external dwelling, all castles provide growth.
131 – thus, on 131 including conservatories and growth (not yet bought), we have 9 archs in the army, 3+3+3 unbought in the castle + 1 angel in the external dwelling. Resources – 0, money 3000 :)
Ah, I forgot. In the 4 vets, I recommend taking 4 magic spheres as artifacts. Golden Bow and later the Sniper's Bow will come from enemies, and we need the earth sphere now for restoration. But the choice there is limited — either golden bow or spheres. I took spheres.
At this stage, it's desirable to take one of the bows and get monarch wyverns for the battle with Dragon.
141 – battle with quest Dragon, see screenshot. losses: 1 wyvern, 3 flies, 1 Wizard, fodder 61 halflings (spent, no longer needed). Killed by 18 archs and 22 wyverns. Almost immediately Ivor picks up the ship call and restoration scroll.
146 – main in ship, 21 archs, and single pikemen to break pegasi.
212 quest Brissa killed (for magic),
214 Labetta killed, almost without losses, and Necropolis
216 – Ciel killed, 27 archs, magic learned. Yes, Ivor travels with us all the time for acceleration,
221 - Tazar, 32 archs and fanatics got in the boat to sail to the white tent
224 – white tent, return to our initial respawn, Tazar has 32 archs.
231 - Tazar with 32 archs beat almost 200 crystals, gained experience.
232 – Tazar killed quest Aenain (see screenshot), not a very difficult battle, but we have little mana, need to fit within arch restoration. Right here we take 20 black dragons for free, with which upon returning to the initial respawn we take anti-magic for fairy dragons on 241.
312 – head to the respawn where Mephala and sorcerers hang out, capture castle at 55-56-1 and growth of 12 archs and shooters!
314 – open tavern and buy back Dragon, now we have 3 heroes
326 – difficult battle against quest Solmir (without him you can't take the book of earth). See screenshot for Tazar's stats by this time and the fight itself. After trying various army compositions multiple times, I decided to take Wizards and various useful singles into battle along with archangels. Lots of RNG on enemy anti-morale, our 3 resistance artifacts against Solmir's chain-casting, wyvern poison, etc.
333 – kill fairies in the north and take the free army behind them, which will help us a lot.
336 – kill Sorsha and take the very safe castle 115-130-0, unreachable by enemies, which can be fortified by water near the teleport, and place remaining army there for future months so the enemy doesn't kill them.
341 – turning point. Enemy logistician — Kyr, leaves the central Inferno castle 73-57-0, already with an army, and then a whole series of other powerful heroes crawl out, open all tents near the castle, and the location is simply swarming with powerful enemy heroes with nowhere to hide. That's why time 341 is key. It's desirable to plan your affairs to do everything most important before 341, including taking the Book of Earth, otherwise everything will be very difficult. I was a bit late, by a week.
342 – after a series of logistical runs by all heroes, I kill neutrals in the area of point 126-41-0 and reach the coveted level 41; without this and killing Solmir, you cannot take the Book of Earth, and there is no TP on the map in any form.
347 – break through to the lake and take the BOOK OF EARTH, now Town Portal is available, and the walkthrough is greatly simplified by alternately passing the book to each of the heroes. This is one of the main tasks to follow, otherwise the AI will crush us with numbers and deprive us of growth, as well as the castles themselves.
411 – kill Gelu and later buy him back, turning shooters and elves into snipers. What's also important, Gelu can almost immediately open the quest pillar and give Tazar Armageddon's Blade, a strong boost. By this time we have the sniper's bow, wizard's well, bracers, blindness scroll.
I assume that according to the author's design, it is quite realistic to gear up and optimize your route to take the Book of Earth before 341, capture the central Inferno castle, and thus block the path of strong enemy heroes to the respawn (they teleport via Inferno castles). Right there, without leaving the spot, you can have Gelu take Armageddon's Blade and do everything quickly. But if you didn't make it, no worries, with the Book of Earth you can still catch enemy heroes and kill them gradually, which I did at the end of month 3 / beginning of month 4, killing 10 heroes in 2 weeks.
436 – all elements taken and Cursed Armor assembled, which, had I collected them earlier, would also have helped pass the map faster!
443 – AI opens the black tent and releases bosses — Gundula, Zidar, Malekith level 868, with armies, serious opponents! Although it's quite realistic to successfully trick Gundula and kill her quickly. Her dragons handle this mission very easily.
445 – Andra killed and health elixir obtained, which prolonged battles many times.
Months 5 and 6 – finish off the remaining powerful enemies roaming the respawns, with or without tricks (Gundula, Mutare, Thorgrim, Tamika), open new locations (Shiva killed by defending in a castle)
531 – 535 enemy Dessa is killed on our garrison, we can buy her back and retrain the clone, as well as use her for map control. Map freezes begin, need to replay days, changing routes.
Then comes a series of killings of main and quest heroes:
621 quest Fafnir killed, although this could and should have been done a month earlier, Tazar's ability allowed it.
623 – quest boss Xeron, 625 yellow killed,
631 powerful Orrin killed (his shooters one-shot our stacks, had to sweat with our morale and his fear of azures to kill such a hero).
633 – Nella killed, 635 – Stig, 637 Malekith, 641 Zidar and blue killed, 645 Aiden, 647 – Sandro and green killed, 711 – Das and brown killed.
715 purple killed, used Book of Earth for vulnerability medal and learning TP by all heroes.
725 – captured the tea player's castle on the outskirts, where due to the logistics puzzle only Dessa with her 28 thousand movement points could reach, confirming that the author intended for us to play with a level 868 logistician.
732 – final battle with Mutare Drake, not too difficult for Tazar, even considering that her forces emerge from the castle based on tactics. Tazar is already leveled up to 88 on experience trees, and even on auto-battle the AI, if not killed, suffers considerably. The battle is unpleasant because Mutare has a sphere forbidding dispel, and one has to suffer from fire shield on dragons, but with so many archs and a clone, it's no longer such a big problem. It is highly desirable to bring rusty dragons to the battle to lower the defense of her azures, as after their death the AI may sacrifice someone and restore them again.
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Stay healthy everyone!