mister_big_joe
Auto-translated
I finally conquered the Paragon 2.0 map. A MASTERPIECE of a map, without a doubt.
I finished it on day 937, one day before the start of week 10 :) At a normal pace, without rushing or replaying moments just to get through them faster. I only started over once, almost at the very beginning, when I failed to capture Virill in time and realized I needed to hurry.
A glorious adventure, plain and simple. Even some time later, you remain impressed. You want to replay some battles, while others you don't want to touch at all, because the slightest mistake in repeating the same algorithm hundreds of times forces you to restart the fight.
General impression: a map for hardcore gamers with a very interesting plot and very long battles. The main plus of the map is that you constantly have to face enemies who are several times stronger in terms of army size. Therefore, the battles are interesting, albeit long. But once you've found the key to the battle, the enemy's power could be increased another 10 times and it would be the same thing, just longer (except for rare cases where you barely finish off the shooters). The main minus of the map is the constant hidden elements on the map (passages, artifacts, resources) that need to be examined with a magnifying glass, and the absolute impossibility of completing the map without opening it in the editor. I'm an old-school player and sat down to play once every couple of years to remember my youth; I thought this would be a two-week activity. Far from it—it took me 3 months to complete the map (evenings after work). In the middle of the map, interest in the battles fades because you spend hours on each one and continue to face enemy legions, but the excitement of finishing the map remains, coupled with an interest in the plot. Excessively strong garrisons with magic bans and roaming troops that attack suddenly when entering a tile, forcing replays. To complete the map, I kept about 5 save files in total, and I realize I needed more—because backups are constantly necessary. Excessively artificial obstacles to progression—throughout the game you depend on the keymaster's tents and quest tents, which doesn't correlate at all with "classic" maps. Meanwhile, to understand when you will finally find the keymaster's tent of the required color, you search for it in the editor. Excessively many repeating artifacts because the author banned all others just in case. In the middle of the game, you start worrying about clearing out your artifact bag and keeping only what is necessary. An undeniable plus of the map is the need to devise a tactic for each battle individually; however, all tactics are essentially game lifehacks that the developers likely didn't envision. Thus, no battle can be won honestly (meaning gentlemanly, crowd vs. crowd); you always use some cunning limitation of the mechanics, otherwise you'll be overwhelmed in the first 2-3 turns by a much more powerful army.
Unlike classic maps and campaigns, the most useful spells for this map are: force field, clone, forgetfulness, berserk; rarely—blindness (half of the enemies have anti-blind). I personally got used to using rage as well, but in principle, the map can be completed without it. Spells such as explosion/lightning/armageddon (direct spell damage) are not used at all; and slowness is only used until you find the cursed armor.
The most complete descriptions were made by bolotnik here and here. Huge thanks to him for such work and truly interesting descriptions; without them, it would have been sadder and harder. :)
I will only describe my differences in progression from his "style" and description for a simpler and sometimes "cheaper" completion. At the same time, bolotnik most likely wrote about Paragon 1.0, while I completed 2.0; perhaps my descriptions simply wouldn't work for 1.0. Please be understanding of any criticism; it's just easier for me to write in contrast to someone else's walkthrough, using their work as a basis. :)
1. Secondary skills for Mogrein (determined within the first week): all 4 expert magics, tactics, intelligence. Intelligence is simply a must-have so you don't constantly depend on mana; I used tactics very often because the map is completed almost entirely with ranged units, and positioning them correctly is often desirable. Someone wrote that tactics and expert air aren't particularly needed, but I disagree. Without mass haste in a couple of places, I simply wouldn't have overcome the phoenixes, which have a tendency to be reborn without being slowed!, and therefore would almost always move first. If I hadn't hastened my guys! And this is already accounting for prayer: prayer + haste is the only way to make shooters faster than reborn phoenixes when archangels are already dead (and need to be resurrected later).
2. Tip: in the same dungeon, there is a "fire" island with several tiles containing a legion of ifrits (about 4000, I don't remember exactly). When you have a sufficiently powerful army, any hero from the tavern can be leveled up to level 30 in one battle on any of these tiles. For example, if you want expert artillery (control of castle defense shooters) or ballistics. Bolotnik once says that for the fight with Deis (15k minotaurs), he specifically leveled up a hero with ballistics... Firstly, Haas has ballistics, and secondly, leveling up a hero across the whole map is not at all necessary: that battle is won by propping up the gates with any hero with almost zero skills, as long as there is expert ballistics. In short, even if you choose Bolotnik's tactic of leveling a special ballista-hero, it's enough to spend 2 turns and bring him to that island with ifrits.
3. In many descriptions and battles, Bolotnik relies on the ammunition cart for infinite shooting. Here are two vivid examples: one, two. In my opinion, this is a useless activity, especially when your enemy is a single-tile creature and you are forced to spend every turn on force field; you are effectively paralyzed by this necessity and cannot cast absolutely anything else. My solution: screw the cart!, remember rage. Expert rage increases damage approximately 10 times, so even the base number of shots is enough to pull through any battle. Even if shots run out, cast clone—cloned shooters have a full supply of shots. The cart is really only needed in battles where spells are banned; all other long ranged battles can be easily won with rage, which can be cast in alternating turns with force field.
4. The fight with Ashwing, which Bolotnik calls the main and one of the most difficult, even detailing which spell to cast first, second, and third, and recommends not fighting it in castle attack/defense. In reality, the battle is extremely simple if conducted in castle defense and by correctly positioning shooters and force field. Actually, the correct and easy tactic is shown in the screenshot attached to the message (I didn't make my own... took it from YouTube): archangels in front of shooters, and a force field covering snipers and wizards. Note that all of Ashwing's flying troops are two-tile units; thus, with this arrangement, they cannot hit either the Archangels, wizards, or snipers. The battle is won for free.
5. Truly difficult battles for me were those with Eternia and Eranicus. 5000 Phoenixes in stacks of 2500 each, every stack reborns 500 without slowing, as well as walking single-tile elementals—they constantly wiped out my shooters. And Eranicus has such magic power that one explosion wipes out all the Archangels you've collected since the start of the game. I beat Eternia by forcing the enemy phoenixes to block the tile through which the elemental advances (unfortunately, no screenshot...), given that the shooters in front are covered by a force field. And Eranicus is won with Archangels alone + anti-magic on them, if you push them behind the enemy's tent and place a force field; the enemy does not attack its own tent. Then you need to wipe out all enemies with berserk and wait 70 turns (whatever your magic power will be) for the anti-magic to wear off, resurrect them, and deliver the final blow.
Now I'll give feedback on the map's flaws, which don't add interest but are purely irritating :)
- the need to have many save files for backups... I only had 5, and I messed up badly, for example, when I killed Naerod, which would have been better not to do, and I didn't have a backup. There will be a separate point about this.
- constant dependence of progression on detailed trifles. From stupid and useless artifacts like the dove of luck or the eagle-eye figurine (I don't remember exactly), or the lucky clover, which must be given to quest tents... Damn, why? It's not even necessary for the main hero to carry these artifacts, but no, you need to know that a quest is coming up.
- because of this dependence, you do everything "just in case" as the game progresses. For example, there is a golem factory; crystal golems will be needed quite soon, but gold ones—not even close, and trolls are placed on the map for a reason, as are peasants, so just in case, every week you buy up all this junk and keep it in two castles (all the junk doesn't fit into one castle)... And then there are desert riders, who can be hired, but they were never needed during the game. But just in case, I diligently bought and stored them for the first half of the mission...
- the plot fork with Naerod—kill or release. I wrote a post about this above and got a brush-off from the map's author (as I understand it), saying "look for clues on the map"... The answer is completely off; there are no clues there. Simply, after completing the mission, you realize that if you killed Naerod, nothing can be undone, and you won't get to the wizards behind the tent. Why make such a fork? By killing him, you get 50 titans; by not killing him, you get 50 titans elsewhere + 300 wizards + 1 million gold + azure dragons.... Thus, by performing a deliberately more difficult action (the fight is not easy), you lose out on bonuses.
- Armageddon's Blades are absolutely useless. You carry one in your hand, but the cursed armor is much more important throughout the game. I don't understand why there are so many Armageddon's Blades per mission (about 4, I think).
- the Grail quest—kill me, I still didn't get it.... completely misses the point. Firstly, the last and weakest element of the Angel Alliance—the armor—is received after Mogrein has gone to non-returnable territory, giving away all magic books and Boots of Levitation. Consequently, you can no longer enter that glade through the green portal behind the tent for the quest (Alliance + courage badge)! Having completed the mission, I still don't understand how one could get in there via the portal. Moreover, even if you get in, it's impossible to get out! You can get in a boat and dig up the Grail, but you can't land again because there is a hole. And this is without considering that the Grail is already built in several castles (Barbarian—Drakarosh, Swamp, Knight—Har-Honord), so why is it even needed? Only for 5000/day when they are no longer needed at all? I asked this question in a separate post as well, but the author brushed me off, saying "look for clues"... There are no clues; I only found where exactly to find the armor through Prospector (suggested in another answer), and even after completing the mission, I still don't understand how to open the green portal from the sea side...
Writing all this, I perfectly understand the position of the author, who spent several years drawing the map, only for some smart-alecs to appear and start telling them how it would have been better done :p In the author's place, I would also have told everyone to get lost—like it, play it; don't like it, find another; and digging back into small details of the map and testing AI behavior is much harder than playing a mission. Changing balances and quests is also quite a job... And I perfectly understand that too. :) That is, even with the author's brush-offs like the one above, HUGE RESPECT TO THE MAP AUTHOR.
In general, even after completion, questions remain.
Everything I noted does not diminish the masterpiece status of the map and especially the philosophy of the plot. For those who haven't started yet and are ready to dive into a 2-month adventure—I invite you!
By the way, is there a Paragon 3.0 version? I still didn't figure that out... :D And if it exists, then whether I messed up by playing 2.0 or not, I also don't know.
Greetings to all!
(in the screenshot below is the correct arrangement of troops and force field in the battle with Ashwing, which makes the fight a piece of cake).
I finished it on day 937, one day before the start of week 10 :) At a normal pace, without rushing or replaying moments just to get through them faster. I only started over once, almost at the very beginning, when I failed to capture Virill in time and realized I needed to hurry.
A glorious adventure, plain and simple. Even some time later, you remain impressed. You want to replay some battles, while others you don't want to touch at all, because the slightest mistake in repeating the same algorithm hundreds of times forces you to restart the fight.
General impression: a map for hardcore gamers with a very interesting plot and very long battles. The main plus of the map is that you constantly have to face enemies who are several times stronger in terms of army size. Therefore, the battles are interesting, albeit long. But once you've found the key to the battle, the enemy's power could be increased another 10 times and it would be the same thing, just longer (except for rare cases where you barely finish off the shooters). The main minus of the map is the constant hidden elements on the map (passages, artifacts, resources) that need to be examined with a magnifying glass, and the absolute impossibility of completing the map without opening it in the editor. I'm an old-school player and sat down to play once every couple of years to remember my youth; I thought this would be a two-week activity. Far from it—it took me 3 months to complete the map (evenings after work). In the middle of the map, interest in the battles fades because you spend hours on each one and continue to face enemy legions, but the excitement of finishing the map remains, coupled with an interest in the plot. Excessively strong garrisons with magic bans and roaming troops that attack suddenly when entering a tile, forcing replays. To complete the map, I kept about 5 save files in total, and I realize I needed more—because backups are constantly necessary. Excessively artificial obstacles to progression—throughout the game you depend on the keymaster's tents and quest tents, which doesn't correlate at all with "classic" maps. Meanwhile, to understand when you will finally find the keymaster's tent of the required color, you search for it in the editor. Excessively many repeating artifacts because the author banned all others just in case. In the middle of the game, you start worrying about clearing out your artifact bag and keeping only what is necessary. An undeniable plus of the map is the need to devise a tactic for each battle individually; however, all tactics are essentially game lifehacks that the developers likely didn't envision. Thus, no battle can be won honestly (meaning gentlemanly, crowd vs. crowd); you always use some cunning limitation of the mechanics, otherwise you'll be overwhelmed in the first 2-3 turns by a much more powerful army.
Unlike classic maps and campaigns, the most useful spells for this map are: force field, clone, forgetfulness, berserk; rarely—blindness (half of the enemies have anti-blind). I personally got used to using rage as well, but in principle, the map can be completed without it. Spells such as explosion/lightning/armageddon (direct spell damage) are not used at all; and slowness is only used until you find the cursed armor.
The most complete descriptions were made by bolotnik here and here. Huge thanks to him for such work and truly interesting descriptions; without them, it would have been sadder and harder. :)
I will only describe my differences in progression from his "style" and description for a simpler and sometimes "cheaper" completion. At the same time, bolotnik most likely wrote about Paragon 1.0, while I completed 2.0; perhaps my descriptions simply wouldn't work for 1.0. Please be understanding of any criticism; it's just easier for me to write in contrast to someone else's walkthrough, using their work as a basis. :)
1. Secondary skills for Mogrein (determined within the first week): all 4 expert magics, tactics, intelligence. Intelligence is simply a must-have so you don't constantly depend on mana; I used tactics very often because the map is completed almost entirely with ranged units, and positioning them correctly is often desirable. Someone wrote that tactics and expert air aren't particularly needed, but I disagree. Without mass haste in a couple of places, I simply wouldn't have overcome the phoenixes, which have a tendency to be reborn without being slowed!, and therefore would almost always move first. If I hadn't hastened my guys! And this is already accounting for prayer: prayer + haste is the only way to make shooters faster than reborn phoenixes when archangels are already dead (and need to be resurrected later).
2. Tip: in the same dungeon, there is a "fire" island with several tiles containing a legion of ifrits (about 4000, I don't remember exactly). When you have a sufficiently powerful army, any hero from the tavern can be leveled up to level 30 in one battle on any of these tiles. For example, if you want expert artillery (control of castle defense shooters) or ballistics. Bolotnik once says that for the fight with Deis (15k minotaurs), he specifically leveled up a hero with ballistics... Firstly, Haas has ballistics, and secondly, leveling up a hero across the whole map is not at all necessary: that battle is won by propping up the gates with any hero with almost zero skills, as long as there is expert ballistics. In short, even if you choose Bolotnik's tactic of leveling a special ballista-hero, it's enough to spend 2 turns and bring him to that island with ifrits.
3. In many descriptions and battles, Bolotnik relies on the ammunition cart for infinite shooting. Here are two vivid examples: one, two. In my opinion, this is a useless activity, especially when your enemy is a single-tile creature and you are forced to spend every turn on force field; you are effectively paralyzed by this necessity and cannot cast absolutely anything else. My solution: screw the cart!, remember rage. Expert rage increases damage approximately 10 times, so even the base number of shots is enough to pull through any battle. Even if shots run out, cast clone—cloned shooters have a full supply of shots. The cart is really only needed in battles where spells are banned; all other long ranged battles can be easily won with rage, which can be cast in alternating turns with force field.
4. The fight with Ashwing, which Bolotnik calls the main and one of the most difficult, even detailing which spell to cast first, second, and third, and recommends not fighting it in castle attack/defense. In reality, the battle is extremely simple if conducted in castle defense and by correctly positioning shooters and force field. Actually, the correct and easy tactic is shown in the screenshot attached to the message (I didn't make my own... took it from YouTube): archangels in front of shooters, and a force field covering snipers and wizards. Note that all of Ashwing's flying troops are two-tile units; thus, with this arrangement, they cannot hit either the Archangels, wizards, or snipers. The battle is won for free.
5. Truly difficult battles for me were those with Eternia and Eranicus. 5000 Phoenixes in stacks of 2500 each, every stack reborns 500 without slowing, as well as walking single-tile elementals—they constantly wiped out my shooters. And Eranicus has such magic power that one explosion wipes out all the Archangels you've collected since the start of the game. I beat Eternia by forcing the enemy phoenixes to block the tile through which the elemental advances (unfortunately, no screenshot...), given that the shooters in front are covered by a force field. And Eranicus is won with Archangels alone + anti-magic on them, if you push them behind the enemy's tent and place a force field; the enemy does not attack its own tent. Then you need to wipe out all enemies with berserk and wait 70 turns (whatever your magic power will be) for the anti-magic to wear off, resurrect them, and deliver the final blow.
Now I'll give feedback on the map's flaws, which don't add interest but are purely irritating :)
- the need to have many save files for backups... I only had 5, and I messed up badly, for example, when I killed Naerod, which would have been better not to do, and I didn't have a backup. There will be a separate point about this.
- constant dependence of progression on detailed trifles. From stupid and useless artifacts like the dove of luck or the eagle-eye figurine (I don't remember exactly), or the lucky clover, which must be given to quest tents... Damn, why? It's not even necessary for the main hero to carry these artifacts, but no, you need to know that a quest is coming up.
- because of this dependence, you do everything "just in case" as the game progresses. For example, there is a golem factory; crystal golems will be needed quite soon, but gold ones—not even close, and trolls are placed on the map for a reason, as are peasants, so just in case, every week you buy up all this junk and keep it in two castles (all the junk doesn't fit into one castle)... And then there are desert riders, who can be hired, but they were never needed during the game. But just in case, I diligently bought and stored them for the first half of the mission...
- the plot fork with Naerod—kill or release. I wrote a post about this above and got a brush-off from the map's author (as I understand it), saying "look for clues on the map"... The answer is completely off; there are no clues there. Simply, after completing the mission, you realize that if you killed Naerod, nothing can be undone, and you won't get to the wizards behind the tent. Why make such a fork? By killing him, you get 50 titans; by not killing him, you get 50 titans elsewhere + 300 wizards + 1 million gold + azure dragons.... Thus, by performing a deliberately more difficult action (the fight is not easy), you lose out on bonuses.
- Armageddon's Blades are absolutely useless. You carry one in your hand, but the cursed armor is much more important throughout the game. I don't understand why there are so many Armageddon's Blades per mission (about 4, I think).
- the Grail quest—kill me, I still didn't get it.... completely misses the point. Firstly, the last and weakest element of the Angel Alliance—the armor—is received after Mogrein has gone to non-returnable territory, giving away all magic books and Boots of Levitation. Consequently, you can no longer enter that glade through the green portal behind the tent for the quest (Alliance + courage badge)! Having completed the mission, I still don't understand how one could get in there via the portal. Moreover, even if you get in, it's impossible to get out! You can get in a boat and dig up the Grail, but you can't land again because there is a hole. And this is without considering that the Grail is already built in several castles (Barbarian—Drakarosh, Swamp, Knight—Har-Honord), so why is it even needed? Only for 5000/day when they are no longer needed at all? I asked this question in a separate post as well, but the author brushed me off, saying "look for clues"... There are no clues; I only found where exactly to find the armor through Prospector (suggested in another answer), and even after completing the mission, I still don't understand how to open the green portal from the sea side...
Writing all this, I perfectly understand the position of the author, who spent several years drawing the map, only for some smart-alecs to appear and start telling them how it would have been better done :p In the author's place, I would also have told everyone to get lost—like it, play it; don't like it, find another; and digging back into small details of the map and testing AI behavior is much harder than playing a mission. Changing balances and quests is also quite a job... And I perfectly understand that too. :) That is, even with the author's brush-offs like the one above, HUGE RESPECT TO THE MAP AUTHOR.
In general, even after completion, questions remain.
Everything I noted does not diminish the masterpiece status of the map and especially the philosophy of the plot. For those who haven't started yet and are ready to dive into a 2-month adventure—I invite you!
By the way, is there a Paragon 3.0 version? I still didn't figure that out... :D And if it exists, then whether I messed up by playing 2.0 or not, I also don't know.
Greetings to all!
(in the screenshot below is the correct arrangement of troops and force field in the battle with Ashwing, which makes the fight a piece of cake).