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Offline =Lizard=
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Posts: 3,825
#7297
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Thanks, Yura, for providing those facts. I think all this negativity is still related to one simple thing – the phrase "CIS Champion" sounds too impressive. I guess every Heroes player would like to have that title. As for me, it's just an incentive to win the next CIS tournament. And I would like to see all the aforementioned Nagamon legends + Alex, Gomunguls... and Hirolovi play in it. Why not?)
http://ru.twitch.tv/lizard_wt
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Offline KobRa_RR
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Posts: 3,259
#7298
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I'll give the medal only in exchange for a crossbow.


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Offline Wicc
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#7299
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I'll continue... Episode #4 January 2013, Moscow, the same long-suffering championship from Nagan. Three winners and one loser (Nagan) made it to the semi-finals. Sounds familiar, right? Pit won his semi-final, and Nagan played against Vitalik for three weeks without any contact, and then he thought, "Why should I bother? I won't win anyway," and let Vitalik through to the final. It happens... Episode #5 May 2013, Odessa, CIS championship. In the first round, Preds and Scorpion were playing; after about five weeks, they got tired of playing, and the deadline for the round was approaching, so they asked me to set a temporary draw for them so they could finish the first round during the second. The next day, I see they're not playing, so I ask what's going on. They say they agreed that if Scorpion wins the second round, Preds will give her the win in the first. In the end, Scorpion shared second place. I think we'll forgive her for this, but she should return the prize money. Episode #6 January 2009, Kingisepp. Mixed tournament, random + fixed maps. In the second round, Doberman is matched against Napalm, and they play a fixed map - Land of Magic. Doberman says, "Guys, I haven't even played this LoM, let alone seen it; let Wicc play for me." So I played, and I won. And Doberman ended up sharing second place.
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Offline StickyFingaz
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Posts: 1,486
#7300
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Vik, it seems like he was advocating for esports and all that, but he's excusing such blunders himself. lol.
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Offline Wicc
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Posts: 5,099
#7301
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Here, the principle is "he who pays the piper calls the tune." If the prize pool for a tournament consisted of money from viewers/sponsors, then there would be a reason to fight for fair play. In esports, this is generally the case.

But as long as players form the prize pool from their own contributions, they also determine the rules of the game. It's no coincidence that most tournaments have a rule: "players can, by mutual agreement, change the rules of the game." In the cases described, there was an extended interpretation of this rule.

For example, in the tournament organized by Nagan, he was the sponsor, so he had the right to change the regulations during the tournament (within reasonable limits). And since the players didn't object, it means that his actions were within reasonable limits. In his place, I would have acted exactly the same.
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Offline Gomunguls
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#7302
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Wicc


However, while players contribute to the prize pool from their own funds, they also determine the rules of the game. That's why most tournaments have a rule stating that "players can mutually agree to change the rules of the game." In the cases described, there was an extended interpretation of this rule.

For example, in the tournament organized by Nagan, he was the sponsor, so he had the right to change the regulations during the tournament (within reasonable limits). And since the players didn't object, it means that his actions were within reasonable limits. In his place, I would have acted the same way.

You can, of course, continue to write another lengthy post with a smart look... but in such situations, they started to explicitly state that you can't dry a cat in the microwave...

P.S. I'm honestly getting tired of this topic about the CIS region, and no matter what they write or try to twist, everyone has already drawn their own conclusions, and there's nothing left to discuss.
Удача любит подготовленных!!!





Стримы и обучение тут:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWlnXU5R5RLCMuWzIpBc65Q
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Offline =Lizard=
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Posts: 3,825
#7303
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Where exactly in Vic’s words is the nonsense? If documented facts are nonsense, then what is normal reality?
http://ru.twitch.tv/lizard_wt
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Offline Heroin_HP
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Posts: 614
#7304
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=Lizard=
Where exactly is the nonsense in Vic's words? If documented facts are nonsense, then what is normal reality?

Well, Vic simply sees an agreement, which occurred either in a struggle, or it was a draw and people didn't want to play for long, or they got drunk and it didn't work out, or something else where there was no result, and he also brings in your game where Redwhite beat you and the result should have been in the table, but you know what happened next. Do you feel the difference?

In short, he's twisting things again, and trying to mislead and confuse people, it's a common theme...

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Offline Gomunguls
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#7305
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=Lizard=
Where exactly in Vik's words is the nonsense? If documented facts are nonsense, then what is normal reality?

I'll disappoint you, but many good players, with whom you generally communicate normally and who directly tell you that you are wrong, all these people consider your award to be a sham, and so do I. You can only win a tournament in one way: you sit down, play everything yourself, and get your result. And if you play well and are lucky with the draws, then you have a good result, and if this result is also in a tournament with a lot of strong players, then respect is doubled. This is, of course, my vision of normal reality; you may have your own reality, and there is nothing to argue about here. But your reality concerns not only you but also other players who also contributed money to the prize pool, who played, and if they were not lucky, then they honestly lost.
You probably didn't read the rules to the end:
Fair play
The most important point: players must play fairly and respect each other.
Everything else is complete nonsense... no one is interested in your financial relationship with Redwave, that he was broke... that you jumped out of your pants trying to win... These absurd posts from Vik, who says that he would have come up with such a cunning trick... Everyone comes with some hope of winning... well, you "won," and then what?? As Leader said, only to brag to his wife or to people who don't know anything about it?
This situation is absurd in every way, that they allowed such a result... that they gave you an award on the forum... I can bet that if Pete had been on the forum at that time, such an injustice would not have happened... but with the current state of affairs, such mistakes happen... and the Creator doesn't care; he was told, and he gave the award...

In conclusion, this victory is unfair; these actions can also be equated to the actions of all cheaters who violated 1) the rule of fair play and 2) deceived other players... I see no difference. All those who try to justify it are like people with a cat in the microwave. For whom they forgot to write that you can't do this...
I think that in the next CIS tournament, few people will want to play with Lizard, or this opinion will remain with them... But Kostya has one way to fix everything (and, as I see it, it is the last, because a person's reputation hangs by a thread due to such actions)... - this is to apologize to those who played there, remove this fake award, and win it next time in a fair fight. And get real emotions of joy from the victory instead of a bunch of negativity.
Удача любит подготовленных!!!





Стримы и обучение тут:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWlnXU5R5RLCMuWzIpBc65Q
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Offline Wicc
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#7306
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I mean that the situation with match-fixing is somewhat similar to the situation with corruption – those with something to hide are the loudest, and if they don't have anything to hide, it's only because they haven't had the opportunity. Many like to refer to professional sports, but any of the episodes I described would lead to the disqualification of both players there. Therefore, there is no need to pretend to be Mother Teresa, but rather to acknowledge that Heroes has its own specific characteristics, and if there is a desire to change these characteristics, then it should be done through regulations, not through personal opinions. Because, according to those opinions, the actions of Lizard and Redi are quite consistent with the customs of tournament practice in Heroes.
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Offline Gomunguls
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Posts: 3,557
#7307
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Wicc
What I mean is that the situation with match-fixing is somewhat similar to the situation with corruption – those with the dirtiest secrets are the loudest in their accusations, and if they don't have any, it's only because they haven't had the opportunity.

Many like to refer to professional sports, but any of the episodes I described would lead to the disqualification of both players.

Therefore, there's no need to pretend to be Mother Teresa, but rather acknowledge that Heroes has its own specific characteristics, and if there's a desire to change these characteristics, it should be done through regulations, not through personal interpretations. Because, according to those interpretations, Lizard's and Redi's actions are perfectly acceptable within the norms of tournament practice in Heroes.

At the next CIS tournament, someone might come with a Kalashnikov and shoot all the participants, declaring themselves the champion, because it's not written anywhere that you can't eliminate everyone...
Удача любит подготовленных!!!





Стримы и обучение тут:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWlnXU5R5RLCMuWzIpBc65Q
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Offline Lider1
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Posts: 3,371
#7308
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Wow, they already deleted the post in the forum. Have you all gone completely mad? I thought Romantic was the one doing it, but I was surprised to see "Wicc" under the message. The main "democrat and opposition" member, having gained control of the green nickname, started acting like Uncle Vova. Everything that is unacceptable (in his opinion, of course) is being deleted and banned. What a joke. The crown grew on his head very quickly. Why didn't you delete Nagana's post, which was singing the same tune?

Added 18 minutes later
=Lizard=
I think all this mess is still related to one simple thing - the phrase "CIS Champion" sounds too good. Probably, any hero would like to claim this title. But for me, it's just a stimulus to win the next CIS tournament.
You are right, WIN! Yes, in this case, it really sounds great. But "claim", as you do, well, thank you for such an honor, I'd rather lose 10 games out of 10 in a season than "claim" such a disgrace. Or are you really proud?
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
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Offline Wicc
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Posts: 5,099
#7309
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Lider1
Wow, they already deleted the post in the forum. Have you all gone completely crazy? I thought Romantic was the one doing it, but I was surprised to see "Wicc" under the message. The main "democrat and opposition" member, having gotten to the green nickname, started acting like Uncle Vova. Everything that is unacceptable (in his opinion, of course) is being deleted and banned. What a joke. The crown grew quickly on his head. Why didn't you delete Nagan's post, since it was under the same banner?
Nagan's post was substantive, but your post was just simple insults, which Nitro somehow didn't delete.

Personally, I could have deleted nothing, but since they started waving the saber, let it be consistent.
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Offline Pomazok1329
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Posts: 176
#7310
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it started again)
Come on, Lizardo didn't become a champion because of cheating, but because of bribery)
And he didn't bribe me or some other nobody, but a pretty well-known guy (and an adult man, judging by your photos in real life).
So, you need to punish those who took the bribe)
There's demand - there's supply)

And he generally made his name in history (like Yanukovich) and it doesn't matter what methods he used. You allowed it, and if you're not caught, you're not a thief

P.S. What are the prices for CIS 2017?
admin, be a good guy, don't delete this.
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Offline =Lizard=
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Posts: 3,825
#7311
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The point is that a whole (rather long) series of facts from the history of offline Heroes competitions is presented, where there were absolutely identical situations. But for some reason, "smart people" have focused only on me. Did no one read anything? Moreover, in my case, the whole fuss is because of a match that shouldn't have happened at all, since the winner shouldn't play against the loser in principle, and which was played on a template that was NOT regulated by the tournament. Based on all the facts, I perceive all the attacks on this issue as personal dislike towards me or as simple human stupidity and an inability to think analytically.

I suggest that the admins from now on delete (+/- give penalty points for) posts on this issue, starting with Nagan's post. Thank you.
http://ru.twitch.tv/lizard_wt
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