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Posts from REWORK for the Academy. Is it needed or not?

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SoD. Rework for Mage Guild. Is it needed or not?
92 voters
Single choice Public votes Closed 2015-06-09
This poll is closed.
Of course, it’s needed
39.1% 36 votes
No, it’s not needed at all
60.9% 56 votes
In reply to Sanin
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#136
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Sanin
I asked for a detailed description of how this should look on the first page, but somehow no one has done it yet, although it would be logical if the topic starter had done it in the first post.
In Warlock's Tower, it's implemented very simply. You press ctrl+click on the Mage Guild, a window appears with a selection of levels for rebuilding, you choose the level, and the spells in it change for the price of the corresponding floor.
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Offline Lim4
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#137
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Dust_HL
...adds balance to large maps, gives a chance to win matches based on skill, and speeds up games. :)
Well, it turns out there's nothing to play in these unbalanced and long XL+U maps:smile01:. Otherwise, people start thinking about changing the gameplay (they start to feel that something is wrong:D), adding rules about slow roads, canceling redraws, and considering any Necromancer an overpowered unit... But L and M maps are great. Only the mini-maps were a bit disappointing:D

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Offline Dirty_Player
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#138
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Dust_HL
Well, what can you say? These arguments are so compelling that you can't really argue against them or dismiss them.
Let me try to explain it in a way you'll understand. You're playing poker, and then someone comes up with the idea that two cards aren't enough, so let's add a third "for balance," and it'll be better. Everyone says that it's nonsense, that they've been playing for so long and it's fine as it is. But the response is: you're just noobs, you haven't played crazy pineapple, you haven't tried it, and now you're refusing. It's just ridiculous.

Added 2 minutes later
Lim4
Exactly! It turns out there's no point in playing these unbalanced and lengthy XL+U:smile01:
Exactly! I've been saying this for a long time. We need to create maps/templates that suit the gameplay, not change the gameplay to fit them.
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Offline Dark
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#139
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Dirty_Player


Added 2 minutes later
[/U]
Exactly! I've been saying this for a long time. We need to create maps/templates for the game, not modify the game to fit them.
For example, look at smka! Isn't that great?! :smile04: :smile04:

лето 2012.
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Offline Dust_HL
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#140
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Heroes13
Some objective arguments have already been presented, but some supporters of "FOR" overlooked them, or simply don't want to acknowledge them.
Perhaps they were as "objective" as the ones I listed above, which is why they were overlooked.
Was it difficult to simply highlight them again in your post, clearly, as Player and I did? Is it easier to attribute it to the "shortsightedness" of the "FOR" supporters?
Lim4
Well, it turns out there's no point in playing these unbalanced and lengthy XL+U:smile01:
That's 5! :-)
Тот, кто борется - может проиграть, кто нет - проиграл уже (с)
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Offline LuckyF
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#141
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Dirty_Player
Let me try to explain it in a way you'll understand. You're playing poker, and then someone comes up with the idea that two cards aren't enough, so let's add a third "for balance," it'll supposedly make it better. Everyone says it's nonsense, that they've been playing like this for a long time and it's fine. And the response is: you're noobs, you haven't played crazy pineapple, you haven't tried it, and now you're refusing. It's ridiculous.

Added 2 minutes later

Exactly! I've been saying this for a long time. You need to create cards/templates to suit the game, not change the game to fit them.

The poker example is completely absurd, and I've never even heard it from the most die-hard gamblers that crazy pineapple is a more balanced game. It actually has its own audience because of its higher variance.
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Offline Dust_HL
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#142
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Dirty_Player
Let me try to explain it in a way you'll understand. You're playing poker, and then someone comes up with the idea that two cards aren't enough, so let's add a third "for balance," and it'll supposedly be better. Everyone says it's nonsense, that they've been playing for a long time and it's fine as is. But the response is: "You're just noobs, you haven't played crazy pineapple, you haven't tried it, and now you're refusing." It's ridiculous.
Kostya, I understand perfectly well in plain language. Those who expressed their opinion here and explained their position clearly, like Vika, did so. And the example with "pineapple" and poker, in my opinion, isn't very good; there's no need to exaggerate. Restructuring the Guild Map doesn't change the game so drastically; it's just a minor improvement and doesn't globally affect the game's concept, like adding a card from Hold'em to Pineapple. Essentially, it's clear that these gentlemen simply don't want to change anything – that's the most solid argument. Most of them don't even know what they're talking about because they haven't tried or played with the restructured Guild Map, and they don't even want to try; they're conservatively and stubbornly unwilling. I won't start another argument – I've said everything I wanted to say on the topic.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#143
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Dark
For example, see ! What a sweet thing!:smile04: :smile04:
Yeah:smile44:
LuckyF
The comparison with poker is absolutely absurd, and I haven't even heard from the most hardcore gamblers that Crazy Pineapple is a more balanced game. It actually has its own audience due to its higher variance.
I'm not saying that Crazy Pineapple is more balanced; it's just an example of a game change, according to someone's opinion.
Dust_HL
That's a 5! :-)
Lexa, would you agree to a remake of Heroes II just because there's no balance on the Slugfest map? :D
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Offline Dust_HL
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#144
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Dirty_Player

Lёha, would you agree to a remake of Heroes II just because there's no balance on the Slugfest map? :D
Mr. Fish, you're way off the mark here! The Slug Fest map is the most balanced of all!
Let's not delve into the ideal balance of Heroes II; it can be really improved by carefully designing fixed maps! Teach RMG III to create maps just as thoughtfully, and there will be no problems!

Kobra already asked above to indicate HOW, besides rebuilding the GM, you can balance the HL templates in terms of control! - "Suggest an adequate replacement for finding control on HL" (quoted).

And has anyone offered anything other than the nonsensical "don't play unbalanced HL"? Don't these gentlemen think that HL templates like 8mm6 are the most balanced output of RMG (except for the mirror), where skill is key, and there is room for maneuver, which smooths out the unbalanced generation of objects by RMG. The only thing they lack is a GM rebuild.
Тот, кто борется - может проиграть, кто нет - проиграл уже (с)
В прошлом "Координатор турниров Лиги Героев" (www.heroesleague.ru)
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Offline Scorpiona
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#145
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That's exactly what the third category of players, who don't play HotA at all, was talking about)))

Just make a separate patch for HotA, like there is for m200%, and that's it.
Those who like small maps are happy because their gameplay hasn't been affected, and those who like HotA are thrilled with the changes to the Gameplay:smile44:

Personally, I've already seen that I won't be left without opponents:)


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Offline Dust_HL
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#146
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double the fun)
Тот, кто борется - может проиграть, кто нет - проиграл уже (с)
В прошлом "Координатор турниров Лиги Героев" (www.heroesleague.ru)
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Offline Dark
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#147
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Dust_HL


Cobra already asked above to specify HOW, besides restructuring the game mechanics, the HL templates can be balanced in terms of control! - "Suggest an adequate replacement for the control mechanic in HL" (quote)

.
Wouldn't it be easier to think about simplifying the control from scrolls, and that would be more balanced:cool:

лето 2012.
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Offline Lim4
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#148
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Scorpiona
That's exactly what I was talking about – the third category of players who don't play HotA at all.
This is basically impossible because the pool of templates for mapmaking in tournaments mainly consists of HotA maps. Sad but true.
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Offline Dust_HL
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#149
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Dark
Wouldn't it be simpler to think about simplifying control from scrolls, and that would be more balanced:cool:
And what are we going to do about other free control, there are so many options!? Hats, books, wings, Dragon Utopia... This isn't a comprehensive solution to the problem, like perestroika. And if a proposal to change scrolls is allowed, why not take a simpler approach and add a checkbox for Mage Guild. After all, it solves the global task better!
Тот, кто борется - может проиграть, кто нет - проиграл уже (с)
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Offline Yosha
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#150
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Won't the familiar balance of power between factions change with the restructuring? Could someone provide statistics on the following points: 1) How much more often do players lose due to a lack of control compared to a lack of an army or stats (assuming the map has already been explored, including areas with control points)? 2) How often do secondary creatures of the Hive faction generate on XL+U maps? (magic school) In WoG, Necropolis was nerfed. What will happen to them in SoD with the restructuring? SoD will remain as it was. It will be played in Europe, China, and America. And you are suggesting that we switch to SoD+. It's understandable that it will be more convenient to play with the restructuring. And over time, due to skilled players, almost everyone will switch to SoD+.
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