Skip to content

Posts from [PROJECT] History Lessons

No ratings yet — be the first to rate!
In reply to Silvanis
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Silvanis;80149

It is also important to remember that we actually know almost nothing about Scandinavian paganism – there are only a few archaeological finds, fragments of folk songs and rituals that distort any religion beyond recognition, and two books written by the Christian Snorri Sturluson in the 11th (or 12th) century – the Elder Edda and the Younger Edda. In short, all sources are more than dubious...

As for history in general, it is all, in essence, dubious if it is not confirmed by genuine archaeological excavations. The so-called "official history" is a historical theory accepted by humanity, so to speak, "by default." The same "doubtfulness" can be attributed to religion in general. The Bible (Old Testament), for example, was completely lost in the time of Ezra, who "restored" it; this fact is not denied by biblical science itself. The same applies to the Gospels, which, according to some radical researchers, were not written earlier than the 11th-12th centuries. But even if the New Testament was created in the 1st century, a detailed study of the "materials" that have survived gives reason to believe that it was the work of either one person – Saul of Tarsus (the Apostle Paul), or a group of like-minded people who acted under the leadership of this noble dignitary and citizen of Rome, who created a powerful "doctrine" based on the sermons of a real person who lived not long before them, Jesus.
As for paganism, it is a universal and variable phenomenon in itself, because there are no "dogmas" there, and traditions passed down "from mouth to mouth" tend to change along with the psychology and realities of a particular ethnic group. Therefore, it is possible to determine what it was like a hundred, two hundred, a thousand years ago only indirectly, again thanks to the same archaeological excavations.
Настоящие герои - не те, пред кем мы преклоняемся, а те, кого мы оплевываем...[/COLOR]
-----------------------------
"So much has gone
and little is new"

David Bowie
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Indeed, the best sources for information on Viking religion are the Poetic and Prose Eddas. In short, it was as follows:
The world is the universal ash tree Yggdrasil (translated as Odin's horse). But on the other hand, the world was created from the flesh of the giant Ymir. The religion is essentially eschatological (concerning the end of the world). The end will come during the final battle—Ragnarök—when the old world will perish, almost all the gods will die, and those remaining will create a new world.
The supreme god is considered to be Odin (also known as Ygg)—the god of practically everything. Distinguishing marks: one eye (he gave the second as payment to drink from the well of wisdom), he rides the eight-legged stallion Sleipnir, and holds a spear in his hands. The other gods are his relatives and children.
There are two types of higher deities: Aesir (gods) and Vanir (ancestral spirits).
The enemies are the forces of darkness led by the wolf Fenrir.
Мы спасемся? Я не знаю. Верьте...
Геройский Интернационал
Клан Homo homini - основатель клана
Член РКСМ с 07.07.07.
ФЛУДОВСКИЕ ССЫЛКИ!- сообщить о бесполезной теме/сообщении.
In reply to AlexeyPank
User Avatar
Auto-translated
AlexeyPank;80251
Indeed, the best source for information about Viking religion is the Elder and Younger Eddas. In short, it was like this:
The world is the cosmic ash tree Yggdrasil (which translates to Odin's horse). But on the other hand, the world was created from the flesh of the giant Ymir. The religion is essentially eschatological (about the end of the world). The end will come during the final battle - Ragnarök, when the old world will perish, almost all the gods will die, and the remaining ones will create a new world.
The supreme god is Odin (also known as Ygg) - the god of practically everything. Distinctive features: one eye (he gave the other as a payment to drink from the source of wisdom), he rides an eight-legged horse named Sleipnir, and he carries a spear. The other gods are his relatives and children.
There are two types of higher deities: the Aesir (gods) and the Vanir (spirits of ancestors).
The enemies are the forces of darkness, led by the wolf Fenrir.
I'll add something, but correct me if I'm wrong. It seems that Fenrir is Loki's "pet" wolf. That is, the main villain in this story is Loki, the god of, I don't remember what, it seems, trickery.
Бог есть любовь
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Fenrir is the son of Loki:)
Actually, it's most accurate to call giants forces of chaos—like titans in Greek or daevas in Zoroastrian religions—since Vikings didn't have complex concepts of good and evil, and the Aesir and Vanir behave no better than the giants, if not worse, constantly tricking everyone around them and committing a great many dishonorable acts. Even more accurately, one could say that the Vanir and Aesir are forces friendly to humans, while the giants are hostile to them:) Such is egoism on a universal scale:)

Added after 1 minute
Loki is generally a complex character in Norse mythology. Sometimes he helped the gods, sometimes he sabotaged them, and in Ragnarök he fights against them... Oh, and another big shot among the evil forces is the fire giant Surtr.
By the way, the goddess of death is also Loki's daughter
С Пути сбивают мелкие достижения, а изощрённые суждения скрывают смысл слов. И вот уже возникают "правильное" и "неправильное"...
- Чжуан-цзы
Сильванис
In reply to Silvanis
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Silvanis;80323
Fernir is Loki's son:)
By the way, the goddess of death is also Loki's daughter.
He spawned all sorts of trouble, and Odin and Thor have to deal with it:D

In Egyptian mythology, Set can be considered an analogue of Loki, who, out of envy, harmed Horus.
Бог есть любовь
In reply to Silvanis
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Silvanis;80323
Fenrir is Loki's son:)
It would be more accurate to call giants the forces of chaos – like the Titans in Greek mythology or the Daevas in Zoroastrian religion – because the Vikings didn't have complex notions of good and evil, and the Aesir and Vanir don't behave any better than the giants, and sometimes even worse, constantly deceiving everyone around them and committing a great many dishonorable deeds. Even more precisely, it can be said that the Vanir and Aesir are forces friendly to humans, while the giants are hostile to them:) Such is the egoism on a cosmic scale:)

Loki is generally a complex character in Norse mythology. Sometimes he helps the gods, sometimes he messes with them, and in Ragnarok he fights against them... Also, the fire giant Surtr is an important figure among the evil forces.
By the way, the goddess of death is also Loki's daughter.
Loki's daughter is Hel, the goddess of the underworld. Odin cast her into the lower world, where the dead become zombies, subservient to her.
Fenrir is a wolf of terror, a harbinger of Ragnarok.
According to legend, Loki is imprisoned in a statue of a giant snake, and his blood, mixed with the venom from the snake's fang, transforms people into monsters.
ФЛУДОВСКИЕ ССЫЛКИ - конец бесполезным темам
User Avatar
Auto-translated
According to mythology (I don't remember the details exactly), Loki is chained by the gods, and a snake's venom constantly drips onto him. His consort sits next to him and collects the venom in a bowl. When the bowl overflows, the consort pours the venom onto the floor, and it drips onto Loki's skin, causing him to scream in pain.
In reply to Saruman
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Hello to all professional historians, as well as everyone who, due to their special mental and intellectual makeup, loves history and dedicates time to studying it! :)
Recently, I traveled to the glorious city of Yaroslavl (the home of the "Lokomotiv" hockey club and Magnus!) on business. Although I didn't have much time to see the sights, the city is still quite charming! :)
The thing is, during the trip, I read Borisov's book about Dmitry Donskoy. There's an interesting passage about how Mamai gathered troops for the Battle of Kulikovo. Among other things, it mentions an interesting and semi-mythical place from which the Tourmenian cavalry was recruited for the Horde – Lukomorye! :eek: To be honest, for me, Lukomorye is associated with Pushkin's fairy tales ("Near Lukomorye, a green oak stands...") and is on par with Wonderland, Utopia, and the Between-Worlds... If anyone knows where this region is located, I would be very grateful:smile10:
And one more question about the Battle of Kulikovo: I've read different authors' accounts of the number of troops, and for many, this number varies greatly (although everyone provides arguments in favor of their version). For example, the maximum figure I've encountered was 350,000 people on both sides, and the minimum was about 100,000. Is there any official figure for the opposing forces and their losses?
P.S.: Sorry for the somewhat rambling post – I haven't slept for two days! :smile31:
Иногда они возвращаются :smile27:
Бросайте флуд и оффтоп из раздела пятерки в Флудовские ссылки или мне в личку.
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Lukomorye is generally understood as a place where a river bends. In this case, it most likely refers to the area where the Dnieper flows into the Black Sea, or Crimea. As for the numbers, there are no absolutely accurate figures, but the following are considered the most reliable: Dmitry - 150,000, including 20,000 cavalry (many of whom were baptized Tatars). Losses from killed and wounded - 120,000. Mamai - 200,000, recruited from various tribes (Russians, Yas, Kasogs, Tatars, Genoese). Losses - almost the entire army. But, I repeat, there are no one hundred percent accurate figures.
Мы спасемся? Я не знаю. Верьте...
Геройский Интернационал
Клан Homo homini - основатель клана
Член РКСМ с 07.07.07.
ФЛУДОВСКИЕ ССЫЛКИ!- сообщить о бесполезной теме/сообщении.
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Hey everyone! I really need some information about Gaius Marius's military reforms! If anyone has anything, please help! PLEASE!!!)))
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Luchik
Oh, if only I remembered... :smile32:

I was reading the Salic Law. What a mess, especially some of the points...
As far as I know, all these laws were just written down on the orders of Clovis, and people lived according to them before. Is that correct (most likely)?
What was Clovis's wife's name - Chlothild or Chrodechild? Completely different names. Maybe Chlothild was actually his daughter? His mother and sister had different names altogether. Different sources contradict each other.
And one more thing. What did the pagan Franks believe in (Arians and later Catholics - that's obvious)? Did they believe in the same things as other Germanic peoples, or did each tribe have its own cult?
Страшней драколича зверя нет!
Жаль, не лебедь я...

Сандро (не)жив! :D :D :D

Влюбившийся дурак на глупости горазд (с)

В сказке грусти синей я один, как бог... (с)
User Avatar
Auto-translated
The Salic Law was indeed written down during the reign of Clovis, but they had been living according to its principles for quite some time. It was simply that with the formation of the state, there was a need for unified, written laws. Regarding the name of his wife, I've never been particularly interested, to be honest. As for the beliefs of the pagan Franks, they are very similar to those of the Scandinavians. For example, their supreme god was Wodan (analogous to Odin). Undoubtedly, there were some differences between the tribes, but overall, the pantheon of supreme gods was likely shared.
Мы спасемся? Я не знаю. Верьте...
Геройский Интернационал
Клан Homo homini - основатель клана
Член РКСМ с 07.07.07.
ФЛУДОВСКИЕ ССЫЛКИ!- сообщить о бесполезной теме/сообщении.
In reply to AlexeyPank
User Avatar
Auto-translated
AlexeyPank;86191
The Salic Law was indeed written down during the reign of Clovis, but they had been living according to it for quite some time. It was simply that with the formation of the state, there was a need for unified, written laws.
Regarding the name of his wife, I've never been interested, to be honest.
As for the beliefs of the pagan Franks, they are very similar to the Scandinavian ones. For example, the supreme god is Wotan (analogous to Odin). Undoubtedly, there were some differences between the tribes, but in general, the pantheon of supreme gods was most likely common.
Just like the similarity between Greek and Roman gods. By the way, Achilles
Бог есть любовь
User Avatar
Auto-translated
AlexeyPank
Well, that means they were like the Germans. *calmed down*
The Romans didn't really consider people as people, yeah. :) And slaves were considered property.
I wonder, could a husband sell his wife or children into slavery? Or give them away as slaves to pay off debts?

So, some modern names are of Frankish-German origin? :confused: (I know there wasn't a language called Frankish. :)) I remember Hitler was proud that he had such a name. And his name means "happy wolf."

"Gauls" - is that what the Romans called the Celts, or did the Gauls have nothing to do with the Celts?
Страшней драколича зверя нет!
Жаль, не лебедь я...

Сандро (не)жив! :D :D :D

Влюбившийся дурак на глупости горазд (с)

В сказке грусти синей я один, как бог... (с)

Statistics