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Offline Javdet
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#5679
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I won't be lazy and will copy it again. And Lawyer & Co, please don't be lazy and at least skim through it. http://zbroya.info/ru/blog/999_sovet...yvaiut-raznye/

In the case of a civilian, this article will be helpful to both active participants and those who prefer to stay out of it. And I also hope it will shed some light on the matter....
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.
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Offline Roger-ua
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#5680
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Bubush, all that Ukraine has achieved after the Orange Revolution is freedom of speech. They honestly show events from both sides on channels like 5 Channel, 1+1, Channel 24, and TVi. 5 Channel was shut down across the entire territory of Ukraine yesterday. Here is a link via YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/5channel
Весна 2013.
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Offline Juristis
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#5681
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bla-bla-bla. I carefully read your link, Rom, the first time. It’s very useful.

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Roger-ua
Bubush, all that Ukraine has achieved after the Orange Revolution is freedom of speech. They honestly show events from both sides on channels 5, 1+1, Channel 24, and TVi. Channel 5 was shut down throughout Ukraine yesterday. Here is a link via YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/5channel
They shouldn’t try to prove anything. Let them chatter, and we will act as much as we can. Glory to Ukraine!
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ICQ - 488-784-621, skype - juristis18

Весна 2014.
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Offline Ihtiandr
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Posts: 609
#5682
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Yesterday, I rewatched V for Vendetta. I recommend it to everyone who wants to understand what is happening in the world. The film is banned from screening in China and Belarus.
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Offline Juristis
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#5683
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The_
09:08 Vyacheslav Veremiy, a journalist for the "Vesti" newspaper who was killed in Kyiv, returned to work on February 18 after prolonged treatment. In January, he suffered a severe eye injury while covering clashes on Hrushevskoho Street.

The car Veremiy was traveling in was pelted with Molotov cocktails. Then the journalist was dragged from the vehicle, beaten, and shot dead.


Apparently this pleasant guy really interfered with freedom in Ukraine; I'm just floored by how easy it is these days to manipulate people and degrade their consciousness to a basic level of development in just a few months through provocations and agitation.

P.S. I can't stand politics, and talking about it even more so, but this isn't politics anymore—it's just a complete disaster.
I can hardly believe I spent just over a month on the Maidan, although even during that relatively peaceful time I didn't really feel for the Maidan—it was dirty, something was constantly burning (stoves, barrels, etc.), the stench from the portable toilets could be smelled from dozens of meters away, people were just stupidly sitting and drinking in their tents, and it would be one thing if this were the working class, or any other class, but damn, these are just, excuse me, yesterday's homeless people, bums who were brought to the Maidan, given a roof over their heads, a stove, fed, and then brought a bottle of booze in the evening; of course there were 16-year-old kids and elderly couples painted in the colors of the national flag, but the impression that none of the people on the Maidan would gain anything from their standing, but rather the opposite, remained quite strong.
Who knew then what this would turn into...
I only just noticed this post. The tendency toward beating, shelling, and other atrocities against journalists is clearly evident in the actions of the cops and titushky. In most cases, Maidan supporters are glad to see journalists, because the more journos there are, the less the Berkut rampage. I can't understand why you linked him to the Maidan. Moreover, he was killed exactly in the area where a gang of titushky was roaming yesterday. Thank God my comrades and I didn't take that same road at night; two guys returning home from the Maidan were shot there.
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Весна 2014.
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Offline Alessandro
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#5684
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Juristis

They don't need to prove anything. Let them chatter, and we will act as much as our strength allows. Glory to Ukraine!
I have translated the words here: "They don't need to prove anything. Let them talk, and we will act as much as our strength allows. Glory to Ukraine!"
You are right! Let there be a civil war! Let 50 million (or more, I want no one to die) Ukrainians die, and the rest, those who are not loyal to Yanukovych, will live happily!!!
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Offline Ihtiandr
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#5686
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Alessandro
Let there be a civil war! Let 50 million (or more, I want no one to die) Ukrainians die, and the rest, those who are not loyal to Yanukovych, will live happily!!!

Firstly, one shouldn't confuse a popular uprising with a civil war.

Secondly, the authorities are provoking everything that is happening, and all responsibility lies with Yanukovych. He had 4 months to resign and avoid bloodshed - he didn't do it.

Is it really so difficult for people who play Heroes to understand such obvious things?
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Offline Juristis
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#5687
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Alessandro
I translated the following words: "They don't need to prove anything. Let them talk, and we will act as much as we can. Glory to Ukraine!"
You're right! Let there be a civil war! Let 50 million (or more, I want no one to die) Ukrainians die, and the rest, those who are not loyal to Yanukovych, will live happily!!!
I don't want any war, and I'm a pacifist in general. From the very beginning of all these events in November, I had a negative attitude towards the actions of the "Right Sector" and other nationalist groups. But over time, I looked at the actions of the authorities, at the laws of January 16, at the behavior of the "Berkut" (riot police), at the behavior of pro-government deputies. And yesterday's events, clearly planned and prepared for a couple of weeks, simply finished me off. The only chance to change this government is to overthrow it by force. Otherwise, it will not leave. They have shown that they will cling to their "trough" with all their might; greed and avarice, combined with the fear of losing power, is a terrible mix. And the people simply have no other way out.
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ICQ - 488-784-621, skype - juristis18

Весна 2014.
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Offline Alessandro
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#5688
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Ihtiandr
Firstly, one shouldn't confuse a popular uprising with a civil war. Secondly, everything that is happening is provoked by the authorities, and all responsibility lies with Yanukovych. He had 4 months to resign and avoid bloodshed – he didn't do it. Is it really so difficult for people who play Heroes to understand such obvious things?
Well, some idiot wrote that Yanukovych shouldn't rule and that he should leave. "Obvious things." About the popular uprising. People can't revolt if they aren't working. But someone is feeding the people for free. I don't know who. But it's easier for them to throw stones than to go to work.
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Offline Ihtiandr
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#5689
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Alessandro
Well, some jerk wrote that Yanukovych shouldn't be in power and that he should leave.

Everything that is happening in Ukraine now is the result of Yanukovych's rule. Are you happy with it?
Alessandro
But someone is feeding the people for free.

Sensational! Sponsors of the Maidan have been discovered!

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Offline KobRa_RR
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#5690
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let's see now, is Yanukovych the second Gorbachev, or not?


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Offline Chemist_HP
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Posts: 432
#5691
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Ihtiandr
Everything that is happening in Ukraine now is the result of Yanukovych's rule. Are you satisfied with it?


They are causing more damage than the Bandera supporters. One Bandera supporter and one Bandera supporter in 5 years have done more harm than everyone else in 20 years.
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Offline Alone
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#5692
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Ihtiandr
Firstly, one shouldn't confuse a popular uprising with a civil war.

Secondly, everything that is happening is provoked by the authorities, and all responsibility lies with Yanukovych. He had 4 months to resign and avoid bloodshed – he didn't do it.


I agree – all responsibility lies with Yanukovych. He should have dispersed the Maidan after 2 weeks of its beginning. That is, he should have waited for a "democratic pause," set conditions, and sent everyone to hell.
Now, even his departure will not solve the problem – there is no real force in the "opposition" that can represent the diverse people on the Maidan. Some people are deluding themselves, hoping that the Maidan will lead to a change of system and the arrival of an honest, non-corrupt government. But, as we can see, no one is even putting forward conditions for resolving the conflict from the "opposition" side. Amnesty for those detained, the repeal of the January laws showed that the protesters are prolonging the conflict for the sake of the conflict, and the main goal is to draw new participants into this mess. Any concessions to the Maidan will only lead to new, even completely absurd and impossible demands. For example, they might agree to return to the 2004 constitution and then demand reparations for the participants of the rebellion, etc.
This is my opinion – I don't want to offend anyone personally.
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Offline Wicc
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#5693
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Quote ....
Pro-American media are pushing the following simple logical argument:

a) Everything is bad in Ukraine (this is true).
b) The current government is to blame for this (this is half-true).
c) Americans need to be brought to power, and then everything will be okay (this is a lie).

As a rule, any discussion with glassy-eyed people boils down to a dull discussion of the first two points. They talk about low pensions and salaries and "Yanukovych's palaces," completely ignoring the fact that putting an American puppet at the head of Ukraine has already been tried 10 years ago, and this experience turned out to be extremely unsuccessful.

And as for the fact that Americans need a civil war in Ukraine, the glassy-eyed people won't even listen to it. This is too much in conflict with their beliefs; they are simply unable to think about the reasons that motivate the United States to get so involved in Ukraine now.

So, in the minds of the glassy-eyed, there is approximately the following pattern. Life in Ukraine is bad, and the government is to blame for all the troubles. The numerous crimes of the government have made it illegitimate, therefore, it is the direct duty of the people to overthrow the tyrant and elect an honest president. A president who will ride a bicycle and lead the country to a bright future.

It is for this cheap nonsense that the glassy-eyed people go to Maidan and stand with inspired faces in a chain, passing cobblestones to the militants. Lessons of history? 2004, 2011, 1917? No, they haven't heard of it.
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