Voting on whether to ban the mapmaker and the Fortress faction. — Tournament History — Page 4

Registered: 1/31/2011

Posts: 609

#47 9/27/2013 10:07 AM UTC

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Satyr

The epitome of a bureaucrat.

No, you misunderstood. I was talking about changing the rules in general, not about this specific case. Here, everything is simple and clear – we need to remove useless stuff. But look at how many arguments arise because of such an obvious thing. That's why I suggested ignoring the whining crowd and letting experienced players, whom the community trusts, make the decision.

Wicc

For example, the mapmaker could reveal not the entire map, but only the zone in which they are located.

Someone has already suggested a simpler option – revealing the map for a high price. Let's say 50K on Medium, 100K on Large, and 200K on XL.

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Не любят многие порнуху, а я... А я люблю порнуху! © А.С. Пушкин
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In reply to Wicc

Registered: 4/29/2007

Posts: 11,030

#48 9/27/2013 10:17 AM UTC

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Wicc

As an alternative, you could change their functionality.

For example, make it so that the cartographer only reveals the area the player is in, rather than the entire map.

And make the hill fort require double the upgrade cost, like in Heroes 2. Maybe, in addition to level 7, let them upgrade themselves.

With these changes, they would be both useful and not unbalanced.

But this is already incorrect. One thing is to remove from the game what is not used, and another is to change the properties of objects. The latter contradicts the concept of SOD (Strategic Object Designer). But for VT (Virtual Tabletop), it's perfectly fine.

In reply to Ihtiandr

Registered: 11/27/2007

Posts: 5,099

#49 9/27/2013 11:05 AM UTC

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Ihtiandr

Someone already suggested a simpler solution – to make revealing the map cost a lot of gold. Let's say 50,000 on Medium, 100,000 on Large, and 200,000 on Extra Large.

This is equivalent to a ban. When was the last time you saw such amounts in a real game?

And money won't solve this issue – if the numbers are reasonable (10-20-30), a player who used to rush with Ogres will just take a couple of Mermaids and further increase their already significant advantage.

Therefore, if anything needs to be changed, it should be the functionality itself.

But this is wrong. It's one thing to remove something from the game that isn't used, and another to change the properties of objects. The latter contradicts the concept of the SoD. But for WoG, it's perfectly fine.

I understand that.

It's just that in this case, the situation is simplified by the fact that the existing functionality is banned, so the choice isn't between functionality A and functionality B, but between a ban and changing the functionality. Perhaps in this revised form, it will be acceptable even for the most stubborn players.

As an option, leave the ban in the official rules, but change the functionality so that those who want to can experiment with it in fan games and fan tournaments. If, over time, the community tries it out and comes to the conclusion that it's playable, then a vote can be held to unban it.

Registered: 1/31/2011

Posts: 609

#50 9/27/2013 11:14 AM UTC

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Wicc

And this issue cannot be resolved with money – if there are acceptable numbers (10-20-30), a player who previously had a strong position will simply take a couple of Mermaids, further increasing their already significant advantage.

We need to find a sum that is difficult to accumulate, at the expense of development, but still achievable. Strategy diversity: you see a mapmaker – and you decide whether to play for the mapmaker or focus on development.

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Registered: 2/17/2009

Posts: 2,034

#51 9/27/2013 11:27 AM UTC

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As an option, a mapmaker could unlock 10,000 gold per turn. Those who want it can pay with money and time.

In reply to Ihtiandr

Registered: 1/4/2012

Posts: 2,074

#52 9/27/2013 11:42 AM UTC

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Ihtiandr

Well, you need to pick a sum such that saving up for it is difficult and comes at a great cost to development, but remains feasible. A variety of strategies: you see the cartographer - and decide whether to play him or focus on development.

Another option: the longer the game lasts, the more expensive the cartographer becomes. For example, 10k in the first week, plus 10k for each subsequent week. 10k in the first week is a significant sum, and to buy a map, you'd have to forgo building level 7 structures, for instance. While spending 30k from the Dragon Utopia on the third week would be more pleasant on an upgrade, for example... In any case, it will be felt.
As for the pillars, I also believe it is better to bring the grail back into the game than to get rid of them.

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Registered: 8/22/2009

Posts: 1,378

#53 9/27/2013 11:44 AM UTC

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These are all just fantasies and the desire to create one's own heroes with blackjack and hookers. No option to change the map editor's functionality will ever be approved on Heroes of Might and Magic. Except through massive bribery with real money.

Не бійся коли ти один, бійся коли ти нуль.

484800548

Registered: 3/14/2009

Posts: 3,259

#54 9/27/2013 2:13 PM UTC

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Satirich, everything is possible. You just need to make a conscious decision to do it. Just like replacing the infamous sulfur in the Naga buildings with gems. The same applies here. The main thing is not to overdo it, so that the backlash doesn't happen. :)

In reply to Javdet

Registered: 8/31/2010

Posts: 1,963

#55 9/27/2013 3:07 PM UTC

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Javdet

Flooding – yes. But where is the rudeness here? Is quoting phrases from a cult film rude? lol... If your behavior reminds you of some characters from there, then it's just a light jab)) just relax a little.

Quoting is off-topic, and the rudeness was in the previous messages. If you can't communicate normally, go get some help. As for the comparisons, you clearly have an unhealthy imagination that doesn't match reality.

As for the cartographer, I'm already seeing ideas on how to use him. You can definitely think about a price for using him and a price for upgrading him in the fortress. At the very least, it's better than cutting down everything and impoverishing the game. Those same pillars will be useful if you allow digging from the 2nd or 3rd week.

Added 7 minutes later

Message from Satyr:
Although, in reality, there is some truth to it – I would ban the no-names from the voting. And Rmax.

Oh, come on, let you decide everything... You're acting like a child, I swear.

МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...

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Should Hillfort and Cartographer be disabled at the code level?