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Offline Егор Коробейников
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Posts: 1,134
#47
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Let's all vote for the poll, and then vote in the poll, and then let's all vote for the poll results (so that they are applied)! POLLS, ATTACK!!!

Added 2 minutes later
I thought digging wasn't allowed because there's no protection against it. - Did you guess based on a piece of the map or did you uncover it? - I think that was the main argument for not allowing digging for the Grail. Why not allow it?
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Offline Lider1
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#48
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Yegor Korobeynikov

I thought digging wasn't allowed because there's no protection against it. - Did you guess based on a piece of the map, or did you uncover it? - I think that was the main argument against allowing digging for the Grail. Why not allow it?

By the way, I remember asking someone this question, either to VBN or to Pete, and I received a similar answer.
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
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Offline Palach HP
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#50
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=Stinger=
What imbalance are you talking about (even in Conflux and Tower)? It's clear that the balance isn't in its favor when you consider how much effort it takes to find the Grail. Sometimes you just want to dig it up for fun, but you can't.
+1, another argument. By the way, sometimes you feel like sleeping during your opponent's turn, but here you sit and look at the map-puzzle, and time flies.
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Offline Егор Коробейников
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#51
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Juristis
Value is complete nonsense; I played with Palach today. I got a generation of Angels, and he got Liches!!! Angels are stronger than Liches, so why did he get Liches and I got Angels??? Value doesn't work at all!
That's how I read it.
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Offline Lider1
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#52
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=Stinger=
What imbalance are you talking about (even in the Conflux and Tower)? It's clear that the balance isn't in its favor when you consider how much effort it takes to find the Grail. You just want to dig it up for fun sometimes, but you can't.

Well, in the Tower, the entire map is visible to the mapmaker.
And in the Conflux, almost all magic is available. There are a few spells that I don't remember, but consider it like having 4 spellbooks.

In general, it's a very strong, overpowered item. The Capitol brings in 4000, and the Grail brings in a whopping 5000! It's overpowered! The Capitol is the primary goal in development. If you don't mind sacrificing some tempo, dig around, and find the Grail, you'll have 9000. With that income, no enemies are scary. It all pays off!
There's also a very overpowered artifact, the "Statue of the Legion" (maybe it should be banned too?). It halves the growth rate, which is very cool. Unlike some native secondary building, which is hard to build.

Conclusion
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
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Offline u2noob
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#53
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=Stinger=
WHY CAN'T YOU DIG FOR THE GRAIL?
Can someone explain?

With a bit of luck, you can dig up the Grail even on level 113 (using 1 fragment).
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Offline =Stinger=
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#54
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u2noob
With a bit of luck, you can dig up the Grail even on level 113.

I placed a Tower on level 112, but my opponent didn't give up and almost managed to win.
Early excavations are quite rare, plus there are many drawbacks in terms of poor scouting, heroes standing still, and so on.
In short, digging for the Grail comes at the expense of exploring the map and maintaining momentum, and it's unclear which will yield more benefits.

By the way, there are password-protected save files; why not bring the Grail back into the game then?
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Offline u2noob
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#55
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=Stinger=
I placed a Tower on turn 112, but my opponent didn't give up and almost managed to win.
Early digging is quite rare, plus there are many drawbacks in terms of poor scouting, heroes standing still, and so on.
In short, digging for the Grail comes at the expense of exploring the map and maintaining momentum, and it's unclear which will yield more benefits.


It happened a while ago when I was playing in the Club with Yura - Virusom, and he dug for it on turn 115, also for a Tower, and believe me, on the eighth turn, it was very unpleasant. At the same time, only one hero was involved in the digging, and he started digging from turn 113.
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Offline Psyche_7
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#56
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u2noob
It happened a while ago, when I was playing in the Club with Yura - Virusom. He dug up a mine on level 115 for a Tower, and believe me, on the eighth map, it was very unpleasant. At the same time, only one hero was involved in the digging, and he started digging from level 113.

That very Virus?! :)
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Offline =Stinger=
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#57
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u2noob
A long time ago, when I was playing in a club with Yura - Virusom, he dug up a treasure on level 115 for a tower, and believe me, on difficulty level 8, it was very unpleasant. At the same time, only one hero was involved in the digging, starting from level 113.

This is similar to when an opponent takes all the air or all the earth on the first week in Pandora. It's also very unpleasant - so what?
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Offline Lider1
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#59
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u2noob
Yes, that's the one.

Could someone enlighten me about who this person is? What makes them so special? And if they are indeed special, why haven't we heard anything about them until now? :D
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
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Offline u2noob
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#60
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=Stinger=
This is similar to when an opponent takes all the air or all the earth resources in the first week of a Pandora game. It's also very unpleasant – so what?

That's why rules are created to bring balance to the game, as much as possible.
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Offline =Stinger=
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#61
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u2noob
That is exactly why restrictions are made in the rules, to bring it toward balance... as much as possible.

So you're saying don't take Pandoras with magic on the first turn?
Don't complete quests for Titans?
Don't take Dragon Utopia either? Balance is a very ambiguous thing.

There is balance in VT.
But that is precisely why I play SoD more often, because besides balance, there should also be an element of luck, non-standard solutions, and paths of development, which (in my opinion) are lacking in the current version of VT with all its classes, leveling, and other things.
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