To Vigo or not to Vigo? That is the question. — Tournament Committee

numOne

12/8/2012 4:33 AM UTC

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Dirty_Player

There is no need to write off-topic posts and your personal opinions in this thread. It should only contain questions and answers. Otherwise, it will be difficult for ordinary users to filter all this and grasp the essence on 18 pages of discussion.
I really don't want to assign violation points. Please understand... and forgive

Andrey, please delete all the off-topic posts from all pages, leave only the most important things so that anyone who opens the thread can immediately understand the whole point.

Regarding the topic. I think everyone understands that Vigo didn't pay a single penny for the tournament.

Kostya. What essence should players grasp here if Vigo cannot answer a single question? That is, even if he answers, it turns out to be untrue. The questions about his skill and how he manages to beat the strongest players in tournaments with that skill are one of the main ones, but he has no answer to it, except for "I was lucky," the same goes for Sevencas' questions.
Why are you rewriting the thread? I myself asked the players to express their opinions. Let them express themselves, I will moderate it, delete complete off-topic posts, but if a person says something useful, related in one way or another to the questions asked and the subsequent answers, then I will not delete it, it doesn't matter if they were in defense or accusation - all opinions are important for creating a complete picture.
My request to you, Kostya, is to stop deleting everything here.

Neoandy

To avoid "biased" voting at someone's request, and to hear the opinions of players who are really familiar with Vigo and Heroes 3, it is enough to introduce a filter for voting, and immediately based on several parameters: registration date, the presence of reports on games in Heroes 3 online. Something like that. So that the distortion of the real opinion of the forum members is minimal.

That's a good idea, I was thinking about something similar myself. We cannot prohibit registered users from voting, but we can do a small analysis of the voters after the voting, and make it more accurate.

Пусть мой враг будет силен и страшен. Если я поборю его, то не буду чувствовать стыда.

Pit for LM

12/8/2012 4:51 AM UTC

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Where are we rushing with the vote? Some cases take years in court. Not all of the prosecution's arguments have been presented yet. And we haven't received almost any responses from Vigo.

Vigo

I'm waiting for a response from the AC!

And the AC is waiting for responses from you. We're asking questions into the void. You, Vigo, either ignore them, or write a lot of meaningless sentences with exclamation marks, or lie. Vigo, are you rushing with the vote because you're afraid of more facts? And from what you wrote, it can be concluded that while you're playing tournament matches, Vitalik stands behind you and advises you on how to play. You obey these instructions unquestioningly, which is evident from the fact that the style of play and its level change beyond recognition. After the game, Vitalik writes the report for you. Interestingly, sometimes you have discrepancies, and you don't even know who and what you played against. Agree that standing behind someone and writing reports are real actions. Every real action leaves real traces. I would like to understand the mechanism of this. Therefore, the questions are as follows: 1. Where did you and Vitalik live then, and where do you live now? I mean the districts of Moscow. 2. Do you play tournament matches only from your home on your computer? Do you play from work? Do you periodically visit Vitalik to play in tournaments? 3. Who of you, two real people – you or Vitalik – posts reports under the nickname Vigo on HW?

Albert@s

12/8/2012 5:09 AM UTC

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Peter, good morning – these are questions stemming from personal curiosity – or does seeking help from someone else while playing violate any rules of Heroes of Might and Magic?

In reply to Albert@s

Dima Surmay

12/8/2012 5:23 AM UTC

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Albert@s

Peter, good morning. These are questions out of personal curiosity - does seeking help from someone else while playing violate any rules of Heroes of Might and Magic?

There is such a rule:

Fair Play
The most important point: players must play fairly and respect each other.

In reply to Pit for LM

Vigo

12/8/2012 5:47 AM UTC

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Pit for LM

Therefore, the questions are as follows:
1. Where did you and Vitalik live then, and where do you live now? I mean, which districts of Moscow.
2. Do you play tournament matches only from your home on your computer? Do you play from work? Do you periodically visit Vitalik to play in a tournament?
3. Which of you, the two real people – you or Vitalik – posts reports under the nickname Vigo on HW?

1. When was "then"? Now I live 30 km from Vitalik. It takes me 20-30 minutes to drive on the Moscow Ring Road.
2. I play games, and not just tournament games, from home, from work, from a laptop anywhere, I can play at Vitalik's place, he can play at mine, or I can play with other friends. I visit him periodically, not even just to play, but sometimes I play from his place, and he helps me, with my consent.
3. I mainly post the reports under this nickname. There are times when I don't have the opportunity, so I ask Vitalik.

Всё будет хорошо!!! Только неизвестно когда... НО ОБЯЗАТЕЛЬНО БУДЕТ!!!
Но!...
Слушай всех, прислушивайся к немногим, решай сам...

Pit for LM

12/8/2012 5:50 AM UTC

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Albert@s

Peter, good morning. These are questions out of personal curiosity – does seeking help from an outsider during a game violate any rules of Heroes of Might and Magic (Heroes)?

Good morning. Providing assistance within reasonable limits does not violate the rules.
Haven't you realized yet that there's no actual assistance being provided?
Vigo had absolutely nothing to do with the tournament matches listed as being played under his name. He often didn't even see the save files. Vitalic played those games from start to finish. Vitalic wasn't standing behind him, giving advice; he was playing calmly from home, and Vigo wasn't there.
For example, in a team tournament, the team must consist of 3 different players. If one player plays for two members of the team, that's a violation.
Or, when Vigo and Vitalic register for the same tournament, but one player plays under both of those nicknames, that's also a violation.
Or, when a player who is on the blacklist is fraudulently entered into an official tournament where such players are not allowed, that's also a violation.
And when the Portal team, which was supposed to consist of 8 different players, had only 7 players (one player played for two), the principle of fair play was also violated. The Portal team is not to blame; they didn't know that was possible.

Vigo rated his skill level as a 4 out of 10? He's flattering himself. It's hard to give him more than a 2. That's why he doesn't play in real tournaments at clubs.

Pit for LM

12/8/2012 5:59 AM UTC

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Vigo

1. So, when is that? Right now, I live 30 km from Vitalik. By car, it takes me 20-30 minutes to drive along the MKAD.

So, when you need to play in a tournament, do you immediately go to Vitalik's place, or does he come to you? And if you have to play alone, is that a loss? Does the game not work without Vitalik?

Vigo

2. I play games, and not just tournament games, from home, from work, from a laptop wherever I am. I visit Vitalik, he visits me, and I can play with other friends. I periodically visit, even if not just to play, but sometimes I play from his place, and he helps me, with my consent.

What does your consent have to do with it? Do your opponents have their consent? For some reason, your opponents expressed extreme indignation that they had to play not with you, but with someone else.

Vigo

12/8/2012 6:14 AM UTC

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I play on my own, of course. And I don't always lose. Sometimes I manage to do things that even Vitalik is surprised by. And playing with Vitalik via Skype is also very convenient; I can just sit and listen to his advice and tips. Regarding opponents, I always play myself, using my own hands. Sometimes I have two or three "heads" helping me think. If I can't play, I decline and suggest playing another time. I immediately tell some players that I'll be playing from a specific computer belonging to a specific person. If they agree, we play; if not, then we don't.

Всё будет хорошо!!! Только неизвестно когда... НО ОБЯЗАТЕЛЬНО БУДЕТ!!!
Но!...
Слушай всех, прислушивайся к немногим, решай сам...

In reply to Vigo

Pit for LM

12/8/2012 7:08 AM UTC

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Vigo

I told some players right away that I would be playing from a certain computer belonging to a certain person, and if they agreed, we'd play; otherwise, no deal.

Who? Specific nicknames. You didn't ask for the consent of Sevensan, Alone, or Chaban.

Come on, Vigo, let's try to remember our game on Jebus Cross.
At first, you were online, then Vitalik joined.
By that time, based on your reports, I already understood that it wasn't you who was playing in the tournaments, but Vitalik.
But back then, I thought that it really just involved "help," meaning you visited each other, and he would occasionally play for you when you needed to step away.
So, I suggested that we play unexpectedly, in the evening after work. You started making excuses; you had to play with Kortunkov, and you seemed to have arranged something with him, although he wasn't online on ICQ. Then you decided to ask your wife if you could play with me. But about 10 minutes later, you finally agreed. After that, you went offline on ICQ, and I communicated with Vitalik directly. There was no way for Vitalik to get to you or vice versa.
Then, I was offered to play on the Vigo5 network.

Series 7. Hamachi network Vigo5.

This is an interesting network. Here are the players who were there at that time:

Javdet
but4er1100
AlexTheGreat
vbn-home
anonymous
Dreamcatcher
Rubaca Crag

Look how interesting this is. AlexTheGreat said then that he hadn't played with either you or Vitalik. I don't know who anonymous is.
And the rest of the players are those who played tournament games with you.
Dreamcatcher 24.02.2009 Jebus Cross Tournament
But4er 13.01.2009 Jebus Cross Tournament
vbn 30.11.2008 "Clans Wars: Online (Autumn 2008)" Tournament
Javdet 04.04.2009 Best of HeroesWorld
Blacpoint 27.10.2008 "Clans Wars: Online (Autumn 2008)" Tournament

By autumn, the following were added to the list:
Alone
Di
keba
sem-56
acer_Pit
Again, these are your tournament opponents.
Pit for LM 16.04.2009 Jebus Cross Tournament
Alone 18.04.2009 Team Tournament: Spring 2009
Kebazavr 16.05.2009 Team Tournament: Spring 2009
Di - Dirty_Plaeyr - Clan War: Summer 2009
sem-56 appeared on this network when this game was played:
/topic/at/269951/
This is very interesting because you played with him many times in the season before that, but not on this network.

At the same time, you were actively playing for rating. Why aren't those who you played with in the season present on the Vigo5 network? What kind of computer are you using to play exclusively tournaments? Why are exactly those players sitting on the Vigo5 network whose games Vitalik wrote reports about?

And here's an autumn screenshot:

Attachments 1

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In reply to Vigo

Leolopus

12/8/2012 7:17 AM UTC

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Vigo

I play the game myself, of course.
Regarding opponents – I always play, it’s my hands, sometimes there are two or three heads involved, that’s all.

Again, a lie, because in previous posts you have repeatedly stated that sometimes others make moves for you, although you didn’t specify the number of these moves or, most importantly, their quality. Considering how your gameplay sometimes fluctuates (the skill level changes drastically in the same game), one can conclude that those moves made by others become fatal for your opponents, as evidenced by numerous posts from your opponents. I’ve already said that I’m not very familiar with Heroes of Might and Magic III, but that doesn’t mean I’m unfamiliar with the game and gaming ethics, and it’s clear to me that, from the point of view of this very gaming ethics, there is no difference between a complete and a partial replacement of a player, and both are not good.

"Шанс есть всегда, но не везде." ;)

Vigo

12/8/2012 7:22 AM UTC

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It's all nonsense. I have dozens of networks, and in each one, there's probably Vitalik, Alex, you, and a bunch of other people.
I asked Seven. He directly said, "Will you play with Vitalik?" I have an ICQ log on some computer; I can provide it! I don't really remember anything about Alone and Chaban; it was a long time ago...
What's the specific question or accusation?
That Vitalik is in my networks? Or that I played certain games from somewhere? Or that I couldn't or wasn't able to play for some reason, and then suddenly I could?
You're writing these long, paper-like electronic texts again! Clearly state the facts or ask questions like a prosecutor in an accusation! (Psychological portraits don't work. Otherwise, I'll create a psychological portrait based on facts that will make the portal laugh and wonder what kind of chairman is in the AC!)
I will then answer them or refrain from answering. Then, the AC and the community decide what to do with the player Vigo. What's not clear?!

Всё будет хорошо!!! Только неизвестно когда... НО ОБЯЗАТЕЛЬНО БУДЕТ!!!
Но!...
Слушай всех, прислушивайся к немногим, решай сам...

Pit for LM

12/8/2012 7:52 AM UTC

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Vigo

What is the specific question or accusation?!

Is it really that hard to understand? We have a computer with the Vigo5 network. Most of your tournament games were played on it. On the other hand, you don't play the season on it. Do you think everyone here is unaware of how to play through Hamachi?
The specific question is: what kind of computer is it, from which tournament games were played, but the season is not played?

Here's what Chaban said about it:

Cheb (22:21:25 8/10/2009)
I simply had open access to it, and I saw him playing as Shaktii up to the save point in the first game, and in the second.

Cheb (22:21:38 8/10/2009)
He started a few days later.

Cheb (22:22:27 8/10/2009)
It was just insane; I didn't expect such skill.

Cheb (22:22:48 8/10/2009)
He was just outplaying me like a child.

Cheb (22:25:30 8/10/2009)
I remember that the first time, up to the save point, I played in one Hamachi, and then he took it and sent the second one

Pit (22:25:57 8/10/2009)
Did you play on the vigo-5 network?

Cheb (22:26:56 8/10/2009)
Yes, I think the second one was like that; I even told him, and he said that his brother has many accounts.

Cheb (22:28:21 8/10/2009)
I would send it from Hamachi, but I just reinstalled the system, and I have a different Hamachi now.

Pit (22:30:29 8/10/2009)
Can I use all of this and post it for everyone to see?

Pit (22:30:39 8/10/2009)
That is, what you told me?

Cheb (22:31:06 8/10/2009)
Okay.
Of course, such people should be banned.
I'm in; I'll confirm; just send me the link.

Cheb (22:41:14 8/10/2009)
At first, he was messing around, and then, suddenly, in the second week, he started using chains, conscripts, and Naga banks of 4, and Pandora's Boxes.

Pit (22:41:45 8/10/2009)
I saw the save before the save point - a complete newbie was playing.

Cheb (22:41:52 8/10/2009)
Shaktii was always in the tavern, even without setting up a rush.

Pit (22:42:02 8/10/2009)
I saw that the Naga bank was taken right after.

Cheb (22:43:25 8/10/2009)
I was also strange about the second Hamachi, but for some reason, I didn't pay attention to it.

Cheb (22:44:53 8/10/2009)
By the way, there's another point.

Cheb (22:46:24 8/10/2009)
I went to rush and got spotted in the dungeon, and then I left to catch him off guard, and he immediately saved and ended the game.

Cheb (22:46:53 8/10/2009)
He might have spotted me and saved everything.

What is this magical computer that, when you play on it, suddenly increases your (and your son's) skill in Heroes?

Everything points to the fact that this computer is not yours at all, but is located at Vitalik's house. When you need to play a tournament game as Vigo or Vigoboy, why go anywhere? Vitalik calmly played on Vigo5.

And see, Chaban didn't want to play with another player; he wanted to play specifically with Vigoboy, and he thinks that such people should be banned.

Gomunguls

12/8/2012 8:08 AM UTC

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Vigo, aren't you afraid of embarrassing yourself by saying one thing but actually meaning something else? Aren't you afraid of looking bad in the eyes of your friends and those who defend you? It seems like you're not understanding something... You have one last chance – admit how things really were...
I'm not trying to intimidate you; knowing the truth, I'm just curious what you'll say...

P.S. Kostya, you won't have to shake his hand... I think we just need to wait and see what Vigo will say in the end.

Удача любит подготовленных!!!

Стримы и обучение тут:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWlnXU5R5RLCMuWzIpBc65Q

In reply to Pit for LM

Leolopus

12/8/2012 8:09 AM UTC

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Pit for LM

And here you see, Chaban didn't want to play against another player; for some reason, he really wanted to play against Vigoboy, and he believes that such players should be banned.

Well, with Vigoboy, everything is clear; Vigo himself admitted that he played for him. Admitting something that, by definition, shouldn't cause negativity is not difficult. The father simply decided to help his son, although you just want to ask, in the words of the world classic A.M. Gorky: "But was there a boy?"

"Шанс есть всегда, но не везде." ;)

In reply to Leolopus

Pit for LM

12/8/2012 8:17 AM UTC

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Leolopus

Well, it's clear about Vigoboy; Vigo himself admitted that he kind of played for him. Acknowledging something that by definition shouldn't cause negativity is, in principle, not difficult. The father simply decided to help his son, though one is tempted to ask, in the words of the world classic A.M. Gorky: "Was there a boy?" :)

Agreed. There is one BUT. Vigo doesn't qualify as a megafather of the game. And this mess Vigo5.
There are few saves, only 4 days in total. So this is also a circumstantial Dragon Fly Hive, another bead on the necklace.

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