Managing 8 heroes on the map. — Tactics

neverexist

1/10/2011 12:02 PM UTC

Auto-translated

After watching replays, I was very surprised by how many heroes are purchased right from the beginning of the game. I'm used to playing at 200% efficiency, and in the first week, I often used just one hero, and then added a couple more if needed. But in the replays, the maximum number of heroes is almost always purchased. I always thought that having so many heroes was an unjustified waste of money. One for scouting, one for gathering resources, and the third is the main hero.
But I really liked the style of playing with a large number of heroes and, most importantly, how effective it was. I wanted to try it myself. But it's not working out. I don't understand what to do with so many heroes. The extra heroes just sit around, and I try to give as much experience as possible to the main hero.
I've identified a few factors that make up "skill in managing" heroes:

Scouting and map control
Proper hero distribution
Defending resources, clearing out spawn points
Deciding which important tasks to give to the main hero and which to the weaker heroes
Economy and development
Building chains of heroes

The replays mention all of this, but in a way that makes it seem like it's all obvious and done automatically.
I would like the "veterans" in this thread to explain the general principles (in the style of FizMiga) of how to manage a large number of heroes most effectively. So that these principles are understandable not only when watching someone else's game, but also when playing on a random map.
And in general, I would like to gather information on this topic in one place.

Wicc

1/10/2011 12:35 PM UTC

Auto-translated

The point of buying a large number of heroes is to speed up map exploration. Usually, this looks like this: 3-4 heroes spread out in different directions, scouting for resources and other valuable locations. Another 2-3 heroes defend valuable resources located off the main paths, which are too far for the main hero to reach efficiently. Meanwhile, the main hero travels along the main paths, defeating the guards and occasionally venturing off-road to conquer particularly valuable resources. Also, someone needs to boost the main hero at the end of each turn. And to collect what he has conquered (spending the main hero's movement points on this should only be done as a last resort). When the free resources on the starting area run out, the scouts usually return to the main path and form a chain to transport/return troops, while the main hero usually leaves the starting area by this time. The number of heroes for the first day is calculated based on the layout. Usually, it's something like "the number of scouting directions (including promising ones) + 2 (the main hero and the apprentice)." If a chain is needed to defend a valuable off-road resource, you can buy more heroes. There's no point in buying the maximum number of heroes; they can be bought later and used to transport newly built troops to the main hero. I usually end up with about 5-6 heroes on the first day and then buy one hero every day or two, bringing their number to 7-8. Hero management is calculated approximately like this: you identify the objects that need to be captured, then calculate the army's trajectory, which it will follow as it moves between these objects. Then, you adjust the available heroes to fit this trajectory. On many maps, 8 heroes are not enough; there is so much work to be done that 15-20 would be useful.

In reply to Wicc

КостяN

1/10/2011 5:59 PM UTC

Auto-translated

Wicc

On many maps, 8 heroes are not enough; the amount of work is such that even 15-20 would be useful.

That's absolutely true! It's strange that they still haven't implemented the ability to deploy more than 8 heroes on a map in Warlords (at least 10-12). They could even make each subsequent hero more expensive, so it wouldn't be completely free... For example, the 9th hero could cost 3000-3500, the 10th - 3500-4500, the 11th - 4000-5500, and the 12th - 4500-6500 (approximately). And dungeons should also be paid for accordingly.

Ибу ибуди - хуйдао муди - Шаг за шагом можно достигнуть цели (китайская мудрость)

Кто к нам с пером придёт, тот от пера и погибнет!:smile51:

neverexist

1/11/2011 11:15 AM UTC

Auto-translated

Wicc

Another 2-3 heroes are clearing out valuable resources in the wilderness, but it doesn't make sense to have the main hero carry them. Instead, the main hero runs along the road, defeating the guards stationed there and occasionally venturing off-road to defeat particularly tough guards protecting valuable resources.

In my opinion, this is a rather complex and not very obvious mechanic. To clear out resources, you need to: 1) sneak up to the enemy with the treasure, steal it; 2) run through the wilderness to a battle; 3) take the resource; 4) give the treasure to the main hero so he can continue along the road; 5) take the treasure back from the main hero at the end of the day. The sneaking hero doesn't have enough movement points for all of this.

Wicc

Hero management is calculated approximately like this: you identify the objects you need to capture, then calculate the army's trajectory, along which it will move between these objects. Then, you adjust the available heroes to fit this trajectory.

Could you elaborate on how to calculate the army's trajectory?

In reply to neverexist

Wicc

1/11/2011 6:55 PM UTC

Auto-translated

neverexist

In my opinion, this is a rather complex and not entirely obvious mechanic. To acquire loot, you need to: 1) sneak up to the one who has the loot bag, and take it; 2) run across rough terrain to the battle; 3) pick up the loot; 4) give the loot bag back to the "dad" so he can continue along the road; 5) take the loot bag from "dad" at the end of the day. In total, the "sneak" unit doesn't have enough movement points for this :(

You can use two "sneak" units. Usually, it happens like this: the "sneak" unit finds the loot and stays near it overnight. The next day, the squire delivers the army to him, the "sneak" unit breaks through the guards, and returns the troops to "dad."

Could you provide more details on how to calculate the army's trajectory?

Well, you connect points A, B, and C, and you get the trajectory.

These are typical logistics problems (in the business sense, not in the Heroes sense).

To see real-life examples, I recommend watching game streams through Mikogo; it might become clearer. You can find the stream numbers in the VT chat or in the corresponding thread in the online third game section.

In reply to КостяN

Тигрушка=)))

1/14/2011 11:44 AM UTC

Auto-translated

KostyaN

That's right! It's strange that they haven't implemented the ability to deploy more than 8 heroes onto the map in Warlords yet (at least 10-12). They could also make each subsequent hero more expensive, so it wouldn't be completely free... For the 9th hero, for example, 3000-3500, for the 10th - 3500-4500, for the 11th - 4000-5500, for the 12th - 4500-6500 (approximately). And the dungeons should also be paid for accordingly.

It's silly, especially regarding the dungeon. You save a hero, and then it asks you to pay "so much" and so on... :smile25: :smile25:

In reply to Тигрушка=)))

КостяN

1/14/2011 1:49 PM UTC

Auto-translated

Tigrushka=)))

It's silly, especially regarding the prison. You save the hero, and in return, he asks you to pay "so much" and so on... :smile25: :smile25:

Why is it silly? For maps with HL+U, it's a great way to speed up the process. And "paid prisons" meant: if there are already 8 heroes on the map, then the 2nd to 8th hero are free. As for applying real-life logic to Heroes, it's related to the topic "Do you feel bad for the units that die on the battlefield":smile01:.

Ибу ибуди - хуйдао муди - Шаг за шагом можно достигнуть цели (китайская мудрость)

Кто к нам с пером придёт, тот от пера и погибнет!:smile51:

zoog

5/22/2011 5:31 PM UTC

Auto-translated

I just don't understand one thing – a boosted Ates (often with logistics/move-art skills) will always outpace any scout or squire. He has to spend the night with slow units or gather resources.

648050691

Castiel

5/22/2011 5:39 PM UTC

Auto-translated

If you only go straight and there’s no way to buy a third scout-squire, then it seems like that’s the way to go: smile32:

Marmot

5/22/2011 7:31 PM UTC

Auto-translated

“Paid” dungeons – in some ways, this is a good idea to prevent excessively large imbalances caused by someone acquiring a valuable hero for free. The main thing is how this is implemented. Personally, I am in favor of either having guards at the dungeon or offering a “release on bail.” This is logical: both the Necropolis and the Inferno have guards, but the dungeon is unguarded – anyone can just walk in! :) And an additional hero is usually more valuable than a pile of gold!

Воскресайте, камінні душі, Розчиняйте серця і чоло, Щоб не сказали Про вас грядущі: їх на землі не було…
(Василь Симоненко. Люди – прекрасні)

zoog

5/23/2011 5:01 AM UTC

Auto-translated

Castiel, even if you level up another hero, the main hero, with his logistics skill and artifacts, will still outrun everyone. So, it seems like there's no point in focusing on logistics (at least in this specific case, I'll add, otherwise they'll start criticizing me).

648050691

Герой Меча и Магии 3

5/27/2011 6:00 PM UTC

Auto-translated

The skill also lies in managing 8 heroes, not dreaming about 10.

Show your true face when losing. Make sure it`s not ugly.

In reply to Герой Меча и Магии 3

Dirty_Player

5/27/2011 6:09 PM UTC

Auto-translated

Heroes of Might and Magic III

The skill also lies in managing 8 heroes, not just dreaming about 10.

You can also control with 10 heroes. One runs away, dives into a castle, another runs, someone gets dismissed, etc.

In reply to Wicc

dnaop-wr

5/27/2011 7:56 PM UTC

Auto-translated

Wicc

Usually, that's how it works for me – I get 5-6 heroes on the 1st day and then buy one hero every day or two, bringing their number up to 7-8.

The question is certainly interesting.
General to his orderly:
- Go get some vodka!
- Give me money!
- Even a fool can get it with money!
The orderly went and brought a bottle. He gives it to the general.
- What did you bring? It's empty!
- Even a fool will get drunk with a full one!

So, on the first day, a hero appears, finds 1-2 chests with 1000 each, and the turn ends. There's no money in the treasury (the game is 200%!). On the second day, in the morning, 500 arrives – you can immediately get another hero, gather some money, and buy a 3rd. And that's it, the freebies are over. After that, you need to break through the defenses, often quite strong, and for this, it won't hurt to build and buy an army, because a free army with heroes will only be available in a week.
The question is: Where can you find these 10000-12500 free coins on the first day, which should be located within a day's travel from the Castle and with almost no guards?