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In reply to Wicc
Offline Samurai
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#2182
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Readme, you need to understand: playing in single-player mode and playing a real game are two different things. Vic is telling you the same thing. No problem, I'll be more polite. However, claiming that having 50 demons on an 8mm-sized map makes Inferno an overpowered castle is simply incorrect.
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Offline FireToSky
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#2183
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a real man proves himself with actions, not words! A single-player game on a small map with a nymph and a secondary Rampart unit isn't really impressive...
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In reply to readme
Offline TERM
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#2184
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readme
I would gladly do it, but I don't have the time. I have a real life outside of the game, and there are also tournaments that I need to play in so I don't let down the people who organized them.
How much is your time worth? I'm willing to play a series of games with you for money. Free stuff never hurt anyone, right?! After all, Inferno is so cool that only Alex playing as Inferno is cooler.
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Offline readme
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#2185
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Wicc
readme, it's obvious to anyone that you can assemble even 100 demons on 117, or break ГО on 111, or take the Dragon Utopia on day 1. If only the map layout were appropriate.

All of this happens; the only question is how often such encounters occur. That is exactly what we are talking about.

That's why I offered you a bet—that in at least half of the layouts, playing as Inferno, you could assemble not even 50, but at least 40 demons.

By the way, regarding "proved it's imba"—it should be noted that having 50 demons on 117 is by no means a guarantee of victory. Because most likely, development, scouting, upgrading the Pope, etc., have been stalled. These are generally more important things, and people have killed 500-800 demons without even blinking.


And I'm not arguing, I was just trying to prove that these aren't empty words.
This applies to a real match, different from single player, but you wanted to see 50 demons on 117, and I provided that for you; as for the rest, I more than agree—demons are own consumables mainly for cons and Dragon Utopia, and without TP or proper haste, they pose no threat upon contact.
Yes, cutting out 50 units by the end of the first week means you really have to play differently, not picking up things elsewhere, not fully upgrading the Pope, but you just wanted a result, and you got it! Did I throw empty words to the wind?
Yes, even ГО can be beaten on 117; everything is possible in the game, provided the layout is appropriate—any nub understands that.

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Samurai
readme, understand this: playing single player and a real game are two different things. Wick is telling you the same thing. No problem, I'll be more polite. However, claiming that 50 demons on 8mm—and therefore Inferno is an imba Castle—is fundamentally wrong.

You're going to tell ME this? Listen, who do you think you're talking to, am I some kind of Новичок to you? And you've changed the subject again, well done, you're trying quite hard to wiggle out of it. Well whatever, forget it.
Inferno with fifty goats at the end of the first week is like a game bug with all the resulting consequences.

Added after 50 seconds
FireToSky
the man proves it not with words, but with action! a single player game on cm with an external dwelling and a secondary ramp is no indicator at all...


If the map gave me that—am I to blame? My layout wasn't exactly luxury, by the way, and only the first week; maybe you'll find something else to nitpick, smart guy?

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TERM
How much is your time worth? I'm ready to play such a series with you for money. Free cash has never hurt anyone, right?! After all, Inferno is so cool that the only thing cooler than it is Alex playing as Inferno ))))


I am definitely not playing with you now; go mock some nubs, and any time is very expensive—I'm afraid you won't be able to pay up)))))
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In reply to readme
Offline Samurai
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#2186
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readme
Standard scenario for MM6: about 50 goats on the first week, about 100+ on the second week, and any Dragon Utopia is ours, along the way all Griffin Conservatories / Dragon Fly Hives, who else can do that on BT???
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Here are the words of a true casual:D

Which hardly align with these words from the same casual:
readme
Inferno with fifty goats at the end of the first week—that's like a game bug with all the ensuing consequences.
Refusing to play with Term, who has earned a reputation in the Heroes world as a very polite and wise person, speaks volumes.
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Offline Oelm
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#2187
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I don't understand the logic. :D :D Sometimes 50 demons are considered overpowered, and sometimes they aren't. If you have 50 demons and a specialist with 117 attack, you can't call them expendable. Any units will be destroyed with minimal losses.

(censored)
Земля нуля.
Все в ней нулево и кукольно.
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Offline ZM
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Posts: 164
#2188
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I was in a SOD (Strategic Options Duel) game at level 127 and had around 130 goats. There were about 4 hidden spots with creatures of levels 1-3 in the game against a player from the Bloodmage group on Contact. I think reaching level 40 on the War of the Towers map wouldn't be a problem by level 117, and reaching 50, or even a bit more, is definitely possible.
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Offline Oelm
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#2189
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If it's still not clear, the problem isn't about reducing the number of demons to 40, but about doing it with minimal impact on the game's pace. At the very least, you can quickly move past the bubble, not to mention that someone like Ivor at level 121 can simply eliminate them all with 2-3 shots.
Земля нуля.
Все в ней нулево и кукольно.
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In reply to readme
Offline TERM
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#2190
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readme
I definitely won't play with you anymore. Go and taunt some noobs, but time is very valuable, and I'm afraid you won't be able to pay for it.)))

Well, if you think I'm taunting, maybe Inferno isn't that strong? And actually, there's no taunting. Just understand that Inferno isn't as cool as you're trying to make it out to be. Yes, there are spectacular setups, as with other factions. And even what you presented to the public (considering that a secondary Rampart is a super-secondary for demonology) isn't a panacea. That's why I suggested playing real games. I might also have very little time starting next week, but I could play in a tournament even without money, just for principle, not necessarily quickly. We could finish a 3-week game in half a year, but the myth about super-Inferno will disappear. Or are you sure it won't?
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Offline ZM
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#2191
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Oelm
If it's not clear yet, the problem isn't about cutting down 40 demons, but about doing it with minimal loss of tempo.

You're right, cutting them down isn't a problem, it's just that more important goals often appear, like grabbing something, dealing with a night stalker around the corner, or many other things, and then the efficiency of the cutting won't be 100%, which is often the case...

Both sides are right in their own way, I think every self-respecting Heroes player should be able to produce forty or fifty units by level 117, even in single-player.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#2192
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Inferno... Everything that applies to Inferno in WOT, can be applied to Necropolis in SOD. It seems like the start can be difficult, and there's also a greater imbalance... Personally, I think that the very fact of getting free troops out of thin air is not right. IMHO.
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Offline readme
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Posts: 190
#2193
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Damn, what are you writing, Samurai? 40 goats on the first day with ifrits in the Citadel – and you call that losing tempo? Look at my save; I could have even placed them with a castle, but my goal was different. If I had placed the ifrits with a castle, I would have had about 40-45 goats, yes! And the setup wouldn't have been anything special, just a typical Inferno setup. As for the secondary town, even without Rampart, I would have achieved similar results – I hadn't taken two resource towns yet, and I was deciding whether to take a secondary town or resource towns, so that's just your inattention. It's clear to anyone that Rampart is the best secondary town for Inferno, and if it appears, then you're lucky. Why are you writing this to me again? First, gather 50 goats by day 117, then (censored, equivalent: write). (censored) those players you listed are far from ALL the famous players; you forgot a lot of others. TERM, I already said that I don't have time, and I'm not interested in playing on War of the Throne, read my very first post in this thread, explaining why. And I would rather play against Samurai and (censored) him, (censored)). (censored)... P.S. "Raising the stakes" means everything is real and very simple; you need to give up something and move towards something else. On SoD, I had about 100 demons around day 127 several times, even though I rarely play Inferno, and the last time was in a game against Keb, with two secondary towns and about 5 resource towns with imps, 1 goat, 1-2 Gogs, 1 dog, something like that, I don't remember. It's much easier on War of the Throne, and I think getting 60-70 goats on the second day on War of the Throne is the least you can do. P.S.S. I no longer want to argue, (censored) Samurai, send me your ICQ in a private message, and we'll arrange a game soon; I'll try to find time for YOU. (censored...)
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Offline LeBron
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Posts: 1,523
#2194
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I can sense that soon every second report will have phrases like:
"on the first I grabbed a couple of Nixes, a Gnome Hut, a level 3 Dragon Utopia.. "
"the randomizer gave me a couple of Broghs for Marik, had to pay 9100 for a Marusya.."
"my opponent's game just didn't work out, they only got 20 Angels and 50 Dragons by month 1-day 2-week 3, looking weak against my 500 Demons.. " )))

"Это нам идеально подходит!" [Новосибирск, 2013]
"Красавчик! Если только не читер.." [Киев, 2014]
"Это Вам не шутки - нажрался Dust в маршрутке" [Новокузнецк, 2015]
Сам ты фиш (с) :D
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Offline Van
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Posts: 517
#2195
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readme
Damn, what are you writing, Samurai?
.....
A decent match:smile13:, definitely with transfers on both sides, otherwise you'll both merge and it'll be like friendship won:D. We could set up a betting pool:smile49:.
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Offline LeBron
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#2196
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readme
let's agree on a match
I'm securing a spot in the 1st row with Mikogi :)

"Это нам идеально подходит!" [Новосибирск, 2013]
"Красавчик! Если только не читер.." [Киев, 2014]
"Это Вам не шутки - нажрался Dust в маршрутке" [Новокузнецк, 2015]
Сам ты фиш (с) :D
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