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I can assume that this highly efficient demon harvesting happens in a simple and understandable scenario: imps, gargoyles, and hounds, after a slight boost, gain extra hit points, and maybe even a ring, and by the 3rd day, when you can start harvesting demons, the untrained creatures are gradually replaced with trained ones, and thus, by the time you need to harvest the starting creatures, they are already fatter, resulting in higher hit points than what Vicc prescribed.
This is essentially what experience gives you in this case, especially imps get quite fat – with +1 hit point, they gain 25%!
I can assume that this highly efficient demon farming happens in a simple and understandable scenario: imps, gargoyles, and dogs, after a slight boost, gain extra hit points, and maybe even a ring, and by day 3, when you can start farming demons, the untrained units are gradually discarded, while the trained ones are leveled up, and thus, by the time you need to discard the starting units, they are already stronger, resulting in higher hit points than what Vicc prescribed.
This is essentially what experience gives you in this case, especially imps gain a good amount of hit points – with +1 hit point, they gain 25%!
In the 1st week, what kind of leveling is possible... especially with such an army.
Leveling starts to progress normally somewhere around the 2nd week. But even then, trying to level up the starting units beforehand is more likely to slow you down.
Vik, I'm afraid that without an opponent, 40 demons on level 117 don't seem like an extraordinary result. In a real game, the hope that you'll be able to calmly defeat demons with two or three secondary heroes while your opponent is idle is not well-founded. And most importantly, neglecting scouting will definitely not go unpunished.
I don't even want to suggest any bets to this grandmaster of demonology, Readme. It's clear that this guy will weasel out of it one way or another. Especially since he himself talked about 50 demons on 8mm, now he's slowly reducing it to 1 cm and 40 pieces...
Any experienced Heroes of Might and Magic/Might and Magic player understands the absurdity of Readme's words.
Such posts are more aimed at people who play Might and Magic less often and create an illusion of plausibility for them.
Added 23 minutes ago
P.S. I consider myself one of the most experienced players in Heroes of Might and Magic/Might and Magic. I've played with all the strong players I know in Heroes of Might and Magic/Might and Magic, including when my opponents played as demons. I often watch saves of interesting games - I recently saw FTS's saves where he was cutting down 40+ goats, but on a mirrored map and with good secondary stats.
I've never seen anyone have 50 units by the end of week 117. Even Alex, although I repeat, I would believe him - he could do it.
Here are the nicknames of these players (who, according to Readme, don't know how to play Inferno):
Stinger (I've watched most of his games/saves in Crazy Races - he was playing as Marusa there, there were never that many, I don't remember the exact numbers now, but in the second week, Stinger had an average of 60-80, I remember the last game with me very well in that tournament: on day 122, Artem had 50+).
Term
FireToSky
LeBron
MikeSPB
DSVasya (we played a little over a year ago in Heroes of Might and Magic - he was playing as demons, 8mm).
I've seen 2 games from 911fh and 1 from Mee: they almost always start cutting down demons from the first week, never more than 30.
How can they compare to Readme!
P.S.S. Or maybe our hero can find saves with well-known opponents (to confirm what happened) where he cut down 50 units by week 117 on 8mm? And the question would be resolved immediately. I'm just sure that such saves have been deleted
TERM
15 years ago
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I propose a readme match to prove that Inferno isn't top-tier in Battle Tournament (BT), but rather a mid-range faction. Let's play with all factions against Marusia, one after another, and also against Fiona. If you can win such a series, I will at least agree that Inferno is a top-tier castle.
I don't even want to make any bets with this grandmaster of demonology, Readme. It's clear that he's going to back down one way or another. Besides, he himself talked about 50 demons on 8mm, now he's slowly reducing it to 1 cm and 40 pieces... Any experienced player in TE/VT understands the absurdity of Readme's words. Such posts are more aimed at people who play VT infrequently and create an illusion of plausibility for them.
Added 23 minutes ago P.S. I consider myself one of the most experienced players in TE/VT. I've played with all the strong players I know in TE/VT, including when my opponents played as demons. I often watch replays of interesting games - I recently saw replays from FTS where he was slaughtering 40+ goats, but on a mirror map and with good secondary stats. I've never seen anyone have 50 units by the end of week 117. Even Alex, although I repeat, I would believe him - he could do it. Here are the nicknames of these players (who, according to Readme, don't know how to play Inferno): Stinger (I watched most of his games/replays in Crazy Races - he was playing as Marusha there, there were never any, I don't remember the exact numbers now, but in the second week, Stinger had an average of 60-80, the last game with me, I remember well in that tournament: on week 122, Artem had 50+) Term FireToSky LeBron MikeSPB DSVasya (we played a little over a year ago in TE - he was playing as demons, 8mm)
I've seen 2 games from 911fx and 1 from Mee: they almost always slaughter demons from the first week, never more than 30.
How can they compare to Readme! P.S. Maybe our hero can find replays with well-known opponents (to confirm what happened) where he slaughtered 50 units on 8mm by week 117? And the question would be resolved immediately. But I'm sure that such replays have been deleted.
How long will you keep wriggling here (censored)? Why am I not insulting you, but you have already poured a ton of dirt on me in two posts, just because I gave a real fact? The higher you hold your nose, the more painful you will fall (quote), are you familiar with the saying? No? Then go learn how to play Inferno further, and keep telling how cool you are to newbies and your friends, but not here. I slaughtered 50 demons on week 117 in several games for fun and when I was testing, right after VT was released. I didn't try to slaughter them from the first week in TE, I stuck to the classic approach from the second week. The template doesn't matter between cm and mm6 for slaughtering 50 goats, so your talk about switching templates is completely inappropriate here, if you are so experienced, then you should hold your (censored). So you watched Alex's games, but why did HE TELL ME that 50 goats on week 117 is real and not that rare???
Added 1 minute ago TERM
I suggest a match with Readme to prove that Inferno is not top-tier in VT, but a mid-tier castle on 8mm6a. Play with all races against Marusha in turn, and also against Fiona. If you can win such a series, then at least I will agree that Inferno is a top-tier castle...
I would gladly do it, but I don't have time, there is real life besides the game, and there are also tournaments that I need to play in order not to let down the people who organized these tournaments.
Wlk777
15 years ago
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This is more of a place for chat arguments in the Wargame: AirLand Battle forum, not here.
Ugh, I had to make the effort and find the time to PROVE to people how WRONG they are.
I just played, it's day 117, exactly 50 goats, take a look, it's a late-game Rampart, I'm uploading the save and screenshots, judge the situation for yourselves.
Here's the link to the save:
http://zalil.ru/29820468
I can create such a save file; it's not a difficult task. The real question is how often this can be achieved in actual gameplay. That's why I suggested a bet.
I can create such a save file; it's not a difficult task. The real question is how often this happens in actual games. That's why I suggested a bet.
... (censored) Let me tell you this: if you start cutting effectively from the first week, you'll have around 40 goats in every other game; 50 goats is a bit less. Take a look at the save file; the situation isn't great – only two outposts, one goat and one Imp, and a late Rampart.
You asked for proof, and I provided it, spending only a few restarts on it. And I'd be happy to play a game against you when I have the time.
I'm very glad that a single-player save was added here. It's not a problem to create such a save.
However, I would still like the author to provide saves from games with real opponents (well-known in the Heroes community) and on 8mm difficulty. Or are we only playing single-player? If there are no such saves (which I am 100% sure of), where are the games on 8mm difficulty against an opponent with 50 demons (I'm even willing to lower the bar to 45)? It turns out that you are simply relying on Alex's words, which means your words are just empty talk. The fact is that now Readme shows that he has experience playing on 8mm difficulty, and even with Demons, the question is whether it's single-player or a real game.
A real player, playing against opponents, can always name the last 3-4 games, for example, for a particular race. At least, you can look at the saves. And based on this, make a statement. It will be justified. Personally, I currently have more than 10 games with saves in WoG for Inferno on 8mm difficulty (mainly from the BeshGonki-3 tournament) with Vik, Mike SPB, Marcon, and other well-known players in the Heroes community. Based on which of his games is Readme judging? What gives him the basis to say that 50 demons on 8mm difficulty is quite achievable (in what percentage of games?), that 40 demons are achievable in about 50% of games? Is it a single-player game and the words of ATG?
Very glad they slapped a single-player save here. It's not hard to cobble one together. Still, a request to the author to provide saves from games with real opponents (known to the Heroes community) and on 8mm. Or are we just playing single-player? If there are no such saves (and I am 100% sure of that), where on 8mm in a game against an opponent with 50 demons, then it turns out you're just relying on Alex's words.
Is it really a problem for you, because until now you CATEGORICALLY DENIED the possibility of such a thing, and now you're contradicting yourself? Listen, I provided proof of what you were so stubbornly refuting, while simultaneously showering me with streams of insults. What else do you need? I already said I played for fun when WoW first came out, tested Inferno, and on the first try I slaughtered demons, and got that result. I haven't played against known players on WoW as Inferno yet, and secondly — I don't like this WoW of yours, I've already proven that Inferno is imbalanced here. I had to run a single-player game to open your eyes, since apparently you can't see anything beyond your own pride. What does Alex have to do with this at all? I only said that he confirms it, that you can gather 50 goats by 117, not refute it like you do. And don't try to hide behind all sorts of ridiculous excuses now. I understand perfectly, how can it be, some Ridmi has completely outdone you in this regard, you, such a great and most experienced player, how can that be? Your experience is just years of grinding, while mine is analysis and reason. Accept defeat in this argument, because you have lost. Take the loss like a MAN, and stop being like a woman, backed into a corner, scratching with your claws.
Wicc
15 years ago
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readme, it's crystal clear that you could gather as many as 100 demons by week 1 month 1 day 7, or rush GO by week 1 month 1 day 1, or take a Dragon Utopia on the first day. It would just depend on the right setup.
All of this does happen; the question is only how frequently such encounters occur. That's exactly what the discussion is about.
That's why I proposed a bet to you — because in at least half of the setups for Inferno, you would be able to gather not even 50, but at least 40 demons.
By the way, regarding "proved it's imba" — it should be noted that having 50 demons by week 1 month 1 day 7 is by no means a guarantee of victory. Because most likely, doing so comes at the expense of development, scouting, leveling up the main hero, etc. These are generally more important things, and people have killed demons numbering 500-800 without even flinching.
