Which faction poses the greatest challenge for the Dwarves? — Fortress

JackFromShadowLand

16 years ago

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Ereb

I agree with JackFromShadowLand, luck is one of the most important skills for Dwarves and should be taken as early as possible. It compensates for the Dwarves' low damage (at the start)... and later, especially with soldier luck, it activates abilities: bears + stunning claw, throwers + crippling, archers + stunning strike, larger units + increased damage, priests + sign of fire... plus, of course, runes :)

Additional hits from Jarls :) Roar of bears (not just the claw):)

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Он лежит на своих сокровищах,и в сердце его зависть и злоба. Не верь, что голова его склонилась во сне, если глаза его закрыты. Дракон не спит никогда.

Ereb

16 years ago

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You could say that dwarves need luck more than elves; the dwarf and elf AI is focused on luck, whether good or bad... I've already written somewhere about how useful luck is for dwarves. It's a great thing!

За кланы! За кровь!

Крестьянин-ZOMBIE

16 years ago

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Does anyone have any tips on how to quickly defeat a Necromancer with a Dwarf?

Эх, опять идти за сигаретами... :smile34:

Ereb

16 years ago

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however, no later than the first month after that, the dwarf will have something to defend himself with.

За кланы! За кровь!

In reply to JackFromShadowLand

Mish-gan

16 years ago

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JackFromShadowLand

Regarding Hamachi, read here.
Don't forget to update!

P.S. Regarding Dwarves and luck: if anyone here doesn't know, for Dwarves, Soldier's Luck with their runes is almost the most important skill, because the chance of the runes triggering (like stunning) increases by 2 times!

Thank you, this is useful information!:smile54:

Malder

16 years ago

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I think that Dwarves in the late game are very weak. Their attack is poor (even artifacts don't help much). They make bad Mages because their spellcasting is far from that of a Warlock or Necromancer. The Chaos and Arcomage build is only possible if you get lucky in the Mage Guild (and if not, what then?) – is all that leveling for nothing? And how do you know if Arcomage is available? At the beginning, choosing the guild is a waste (and if you're going for a Strength/Magic build with Light, the options are: Image/Leadership/Attack/Defense/Luck – you have to sacrifice something for Light). And so on. In general, I tried hard to learn how to play them, but it's not very successful. Even Orcs look better. And any race from the original game easily beats Dwarves. My favorite races to play are Mages, Necromancers, and Elves – they tear everything apart. Maybe I just haven't encountered good players (I want to play against a skilled Dwarf player to see the real strength of these bearded guys, but without Chaos, just a Light build – I know the Chaos build is an option, but it's random). The map is large (Ascension to Power).

Прячься,скрывайся,наблюдай,слушай,запоминай - и нанеси удар когда его меньше всего ожидают

Ereb

16 years ago

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MalderI'll tell you right now, you've been playing against weaklings who don't really know anything; personally, for me, playing as dwarves is a pure pleasure)))
In your post, you didn't say anything about the abilities of dwarf heroes—they have heroes who specialize in a certain unit: Ingvar, Ibba, Erling, Karli.
There are heroes whose special ability is something else entirely: Inga, Helmar... Brand isn't great, but at least he lets you use your imagination). AND then there's one outsider, Sveya!
So, who exactly did you play? If it was on regular maps like Outcasts Land (I like that one because there are 4 Dragon Utopia and you can upgrade to 28
Dwarves in the late game are no worse than orcs and humans, and if they take a super ability, they absolutely tear many apart! Have you seen their СА? Orcs fail there just like elves... now humans with light and darkness can still do something... but the chances are slim because the enemy' same luck will never trigger while ours will ))))
So back to your post: tell me who you played? I'll tell you everything))))

За кланы! За кровь!

In reply to Malder

Mish-gan

16 years ago

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Malder

I think dwarves are very weak in the late game. Their attack is terrible (even artifacts don't help much). They make poor mages because their magic is far from that of a Warlock or Necromancer. A Chaos/Armageddon build is only possible if you get lucky with the Guild of Mages (and if not, what then?) Should I just throw away all that development? And how do you know if Armageddon is available? It's inefficient to focus on the Guild early on (and if you're going for a Strength/Magic build, the options are: Form/Leadership/Attack/Defense/Luck – you have to sacrifice something for Light). And so on.
In general, I tried hard to learn how to play them, but it's not very successful. Even Orcs look better. And any race from the original game easily beats dwarves. My favorite mages/necro/elementals tear them apart.
Maybe I just haven't encountered skilled players (I want to play against a skilled dwarf player to see their real strength – but without Chaos, just Light – I know the Chaos option, but it's random). The map is large (Ascension to Power).

Let's play, and no Chaos, just Light. For example, "Lands of Exile" or "Listening to Silence" are good late-game maps. Write to me in a private message, and we'll discuss the game conditions. You'll see what dwarves are capable of.

Ereb

16 years ago

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Listening to the silence, this is quite a decent map! It seems like it's designed for a competition where the player who defeats the enemy the fastest gets the Staff of the Underworld (or something similar) – it gives -20% initiative, and that's basically game over.

За кланы! За кровь!

Malder

16 years ago

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let's play))
the map is "Ascension to Power :)", it has a long leveling process. Choose any hero you want.
I want to see what a Dwarf can do xDDD
Sa is rarely chosen because people don't play on large and very large maps for that long ;) unless you manage to reach level 25)).

Прячься,скрывайся,наблюдай,слушай,запоминай - и нанеси удар когда его меньше всего ожидают

Malder

16 years ago

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great)))
and I didn't say anything about my OMG skill) although thanks, thanks for the compliment =)
so, in my role as a newbie here, I have my conditions (the map is "Ascension to Power" - this is one of the standard maps built into the game) - show me how to play with Dwarves) because I really want to see what they can do (I know about Armageddon with those 3 stacks with immunity) - I want to see some kind of Light creature))

Прячься,скрывайся,наблюдай,слушай,запоминай - и нанеси удар когда его меньше всего ожидают

Ereb

16 years ago

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This phrase, "some kind of dwarves," indicates that you are underestimating the dwarves:
1. I played with Mish-gan, and he plays very well with the dwarves. I'm playing as dwarves myself right now.
2. I have friends who are just hardcore Heroes players, and they understand perfectly that dwarves are not to be trifled with.
3. I advise you to play against experienced players who use dwarves; they'll show you where the necromancers stand.

За кланы! За кровь!

Саня Изи

16 years ago

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Well, I actually know quite well what Gnomes are capable of in late game, and you, Erebus, don't need to teach me. I even played with Mishgan. And if you're interested, you can ask him what Necromancers are capable of in late game. And you just keep changing your mind, praising one faction and then another. Is it just youthful maximalism?

Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день

Ereb

16 years ago

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Ooooooh! I wonder how everything turned out? How many games did you play? On which maps? Who won in the end? ...to be honest, I have a pretty good opinion of you, but I think you know less about Gnomes than I do... I was especially impressed by how you wrote about Berserkers... that was just... :smile30:.... I wonder who I was praising, who are we talking about?

За кланы! За кровь!

Саня Изи

16 years ago

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Mishgan and I play almost every evening:smile20: :smile20:. We usually play as different factions. But he plays as Dwarves very well, I have to admit. He wins often. But I win sometimes too. Roughly 50/50 (I hope Mikhail, you won't be offended if I say that?). As for me underestimating Dwarves, well, maybe I did before, but after playing as them a couple of times, I realized that they are really strong in the late game. But you haven't seen truly strong Necromancers. So, for now, I have the impression that there are 2 strongest factions in Heroes - Dwarves and Necromancers. And if I tease them sometimes, it just means that their strength slightly irritates me; if they weren't so strong, Necromancers would be the strongest.

Added 6 minutes later

Ereb

:....I wonder who I was praising, who are we talking about?

How can you forget? You used to be completely devoted to Haven. Then you started praising nature, forests, and Elves. And now, as I understand it, you've started singing the praises of Dwarves. Just change your avatar to a Dwarven one, because the one with the dancing swords is no longer appropriate:smile09: :D

Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день

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