Moscow qualifier.

KobRa_RR

10/15/2009 10:31 AM UTC

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..fixed bugs (hero viewing, castles, artifact selling, etc.) - four, balance (fixed Kyrre and Co, mages with 4th level, scrolls, objects, 2nd level from the start, 3 slots, magic schools equalized - now there's a clear imbalance toward earth and air), Rampart nerfed, etc. etc. It's all written in the help) that's FIVE

Piterius

10/15/2009 10:37 AM UTC

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SAG

I ask everyone who has already registered or wants to register to express their preferences:
1) regarding maps:
a) specify desired maps
b) specify which ones they definitely will not play under any circumstances
2) regarding the game version:
a) specify the desired one
b) specify which ones they definitely will not play under any circumstances
3) regarding the dates:
a) specify desired dates
b) specify when they definitely cannot play
4) other conditions under which they will not play

Kyiv wasn't taken, so there is a desire to take Moscow:)
1) Most desired is 8mm6; generally ready for any, the least desired of which is cm
2) TE, TE_light, SoD - in descending order of preference
3) Proposed dates are suitable
4) Much depends on the total budget for participating in this event, and if it's quite affordable, then why not.

Regarding the cm map in Kyiv. I can't say that I enjoyed playing this map. I simply agreed to the terms and that was it, since most people wanted it. But I don't understand why this miserable scrap of a map is still so popular.
I don't see where the fairness is
- when you control 70% of the map on the third [week] and find nothing, while your opponent has three Dragon Utopia within three moves from their home town??
- when you are locked in your respawn by shooters and other blocks and wait for second-week growth or just throw in the towel??
- when one person has everything going perfectly, and the second puts 1-4 in the fort or surrenders seeing such a prospect?? And these reports about victories on 113, 114 etc. up to 117 are completely incomprehensible to me - "the opponent threw in and surrendered!" The question is - why spend 2 hours moving rests? Just flip a coin and that's it!

Things can go wrong on 8mm6 too, but significantly less often than on cm. But the opportunities to play creatively and diversely, to save the game — to climb out of ...the same old hole — are many times greater!

Specifically, 8mm6 combined with TE attract me most to participate in this subject.

Хаос - это порядок, которым сложнее управлять.

icq: 407907277
skype: piterius_i

In reply to KobRa_RR

Wicc

10/15/2009 10:54 AM UTC

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KobRa_RR

..the fixed bugs (hero viewing, castles, artifact sales, etc.) — four, balance (fixed Kyrre and Sо, mages with 4th level, scrolls, objects, 2nd level from the start, 3 slots, magic schools equalized — now there's a clear overbalance toward earth and air), RamPart weakened, etc., etc. It's all written in the help) that's FIVE

It's like cowboys versus Indians. The Indians don't need European knives, guns, clothes, etc. They want to shoot bows, gather roots, and periodically run after the scalps of a neighboring tribe. And for no one to trespass on their land. A perfectly understandable position.

In reply to wowa

Vigo

10/15/2009 10:59 AM UTC

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wowa

answering the question: if by the word "us" we mean not some group of players with a conservative mindset, but the Heroes Community as a whole, then TE is needed just as much as computers with Core 2 Quad processors and 4 GB of RAM and a terabyte hard drive are needed compared to the classic (i.e., invented and created by the developers) IBM PC... the difference is certainly not so drastic, but the principle is the same :)

speed -- one! convenience -- two!! opportunities for creativity -- three!!! :smile19:

Well, no one is forcing you or "you" to play the original version of Heroes!
If you like the "convenient" new features, go ahead! If you or "you" are not interested in playing the real Heroes "without convenience," "speed," and "without creativity," then go ahead!!!
I have expressed my opinion about this game, which I have been playing for more than 10 years, and I periodically enjoy playing through the Campaigns and relax in a heroic way :)

Just don't "subtly" impose what you or "you" think is best! Everyone decides for themselves! If someone decides that "new features" are better for them, that's fine; the player plays what they like. If someone doesn't want to, isn't interested, doesn't like it, or doesn't think it's necessary, then that's their business!

If you want to organize a tournament, do it well! Why force anyone "subtly"?
Create a light qualification for TE, a full TE qualification, and a SoD qualification. And then let each player decide how they want to compete. The main thing is to bring this huge Heroes Community together! "Old" players, young players. At least partially. The rest will either be told about it, look at the photos, or be witnesses. Because it doesn't matter who wins! And if it matters to someone, then here is the winner! A mega-competition of players in the capital: WINNER of SoD 2009, WINNER of full TE 2009, WINNER of light TE - or something like that. I think no one will be disappointed by such an event! And there will be fewer squabbles and friction.

In short, I apologize for the flood if anything. Good luck to all players, mutual understanding, and may the bastards not spoil the fun on the first turn in the console! :)

Всё будет хорошо!!! Только неизвестно когда... НО ОБЯЗАТЕЛЬНО БУДЕТ!!!
Но!...
Слушай всех, прислушивайся к немногим, решай сам...

In reply to Vigo

wowa

10/15/2009 11:23 AM UTC

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Vigo

......Good luck to all players, mutual understanding, and may the damned griffins in the Griffin Conservatory not lose morale! :)

thanks, but they do lose morale like hell in TE :eek:

and in principle, I understand such positions, but we have to face reality: in our world, nothing is permanent -- progress is progress even in Africa... and everyone's attitude toward progress is certainly different! An acquaintance told me a story about his American friend -- either a judge or a prosecutor -- who had a computer from a hundred years ago (not an original IBM, but from its time the most respectable, now defunct company Compaq)) with a crappy monitor that you literally couldn't look at without crying!... and the prosecutor also had lenses in his glasses half a meter thick.. when asked "why don't you buy a new computer?" (and judges' salaries in the States are veeeeery hefty))) the answer was "this one suits me in every way!" period! not up for discussion!

habit is also part of us, of course, but by indulging habits, it's impossible to change for the better..... otherwise let's play tennis in tailcoats, or whatever they wore at the dawn of that game)))))))))

well, the point of the discussion is precisely to unite players who play on different engines and by different rules into a single -- the best and optimal!!! if someone gives me clear arguments that SoD with an SS template is better, more optimal, etc., not just because someone likes it that way -- then I'll agree and advocate for its implementation in all tournaments))))) but for now, it's not about imposition (otherwise they'd be pushing TE-Full) but about developing a variant that would suit everyone as much as possible! :)

In reply to wowa

Captain

10/15/2009 12:12 PM UTC

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wowa

The point of the discussion is precisely to unite players who play on different engines and with different rules into a single, better, and optimal community! If I am presented with clear arguments that SOD with the SM template is better and more optimal, and not just because some people like it, then I will agree and advocate for its implementation in all tournaments. But for now, it's not about imposing anything (otherwise, we would be pushing for TE-full), but about developing a version that would satisfy everyone as much as possible! :)

wowa, you're talking about unification... but do you know what people play worldwide? You need to look at the bigger picture. :)
For example, the Chinese are very strong players and play SOD without any problems. And we, with our local "garden" (TE), are trying to create this garden. :)
It's better to be a specialist in one thing... not everyone can constantly retrain from one version to another or play on different versions... family or work doesn't allow enough time to play both SOD and TE.
And if you want unification, play on what everyone else plays... not just 20-30 people with a balalaika. :)

P.S. This is my personal argument - just to argue - you don't have to take it too seriously. :)

Дипломатия - искусство говорить собаке "хорошая собачка" до тех пор пока не найдешь подходящую палку.

KobRa_RR

10/15/2009 12:31 PM UTC

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Peter, for me, the answer is simple: some people want to develop in this game, master all possible versions and templates, play with strong players, and become stronger themselves, while others are content with simply playing one version for life (why not 1.4 or Armageddon's Blade, by the way?), using one template for one or two factions, and beating beginners. It's just that everyone has their own approach, and we need to accept that. But if we want to create a strong, representative tournament, not just a local one, then it would be good to consider the opinions of all groups and find a compromise. Notice that no one is saying that the final should be played on FULL-TE; on the contrary, to please less experienced players, we are suggesting TE-Lite. The differences from SOD are about 1-2%, and they all relate to the interface; this is where we will see who sabotages even this idea!

In reply to wowa

Alex_R

10/15/2009 12:52 PM UTC

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wowa

For now, it's not about imposing anything (otherwise, they would be pushing for a TE-only format), but about developing an option that would satisfy everyone as much as possible! :)

Vigo suggested a good option, in my opinion, one that would satisfy everyone more... to hold competitions across different versions... in boxing, there's a "champion according to version X."
I don't see any rational point in bringing everyone under one version, one template, and one set of rules... does someone really want to be the very best among all? :)
If Nagan intended this to identify the strongest among all, then, in my opinion, now is the time to clearly define how much the quality (player pool) can be sacrificed.
Moreover, in this format, the option to determine the very best is not lost... they can arrange a battle between the winners of the finals in different versions.

P.S. Considering the feedback from those who have participated in such gatherings before or in the recent qualifiers in Kyiv and Michurinsk, the most important and enjoyable thing for the majority is the participation itself. And it is precisely in this way that it is better to promote TE or 8mm6, because players, having seen all this in action, will most likely want to repeat this and it will no longer be so important to them which version or in which city it takes place...

All the arguments that TE is better because it is progress are absurd, in my opinion. Progressive Heroes players should have long ago been disgusted with Heroes 5 TOE 3.1 and be waiting for Heroes 5 4.0 or Heroes 6. Or does anyone argue that "the dynamic combat and simultaneous turn in Heroes 5 is inferior to the TE version?"
You are all conservatives to varying degrees, some are SoD, some are TE, some are Heroes 2, and some haven't even forgotten about chess... but just considering yourself a bird won't make you fly.
No offense

In reply to Captain

wowa

10/15/2009 12:52 PM UTC

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Captain

vova, you're talking about unification... but do you know what people play worldwide? You need to look at the bigger picture :)
Look at the Chinese, for example, they're very strong and play SOD without any problems... and we're trying to create our own little garden (TE) instead of joining the bigger one :)
It's better to be an expert in one thing... not everyone can constantly learn new things from version to version or play different versions... family or work doesn't allow you to have enough time to play both SOD and TE.
And if you want unification, play what everyone else plays... not just 20-30 people with an old version :)

P.S. This is just my personal argument - you don't have to take it too seriously :)

it's purely personal)))))
and I'm here talking about global trends - a polymer racket was also initially only available to a few, while the vast majority of tennis players used wooden ones :smile13:
and finally, understand this: you don't need to relearn everything for the full game!!!
a simple example: you're playing and don't know about some hero's trick... and then someone reveals it to you (or you see it in a real game) - and that's it, you start using it)))
this is what progress consists of... and the features of TE (for those who might not know - HoMM Tournament Edition was not created out of thin air, but based on the collective and long-discussed recommendations of the best Heroes players of our time) - consider it as the game revealing new facets! :) and this comes from developers who didn't even realize that you could play with chains and 1 stack instead of all 7, or from the best tournament players - I think the latter is even preferable....

in the end, among shooters, there's the classic Half-Life, and there's the cartoonish Counter-Strike...))) so use SOD to camp and destroy swarms of Azure Dragons, but for playing against a real person with a time-playing factor, it's definitely better to use the tournament mod, which is designed for this purpose - the late 3DO simply didn't have the resources and time to bring this to something meaningful, so sorry that TE doesn't have a cool label (if the legendary names behind the innovations don't mean anything to you)))

the saddest thing is that I was forced to say this TE thing - until now, I was personally talking about TE-Lite as a compromise option, necessary for unifying the community... but when they stubbornly repeat that boots are better for running than sneakers just because they were invented earlier and more people wear them!!........

as a final point, I can offer any SOD supporter a duel offline on SOD! :) offline - because even with fixes, online still depends on how the game unfolds... but offline, the conditions are absolutely identical, and it's closer to the campaigns! This may not prove anything, but at least it will illustrate that the desire for new things does not kill the mastery and love for traditional tools - after all, we are all grateful to SOD for what it brings us and will continue to bring :)

In reply to Captain

Wicc

10/15/2009 12:59 PM UTC

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Captain

vova, you're talking about unification... but do you know what people play all over the world? you need to think broader :)

Not broader, but more soberly. Close unification of communities is impossible with either the Chinese or speakers of any language other than Russian. Such is the specificity of Heroes - the game requires more communication than "1x1 zerg C+ msg me".

From the standpoint of attracting foreigners, a much more effective approach is demonstrating a higher level of skill than theirs. Then the most advanced fellows from their community start taking interest - who are these bigwigs, how can we play with them.

After a convincing winning streak of away matches, foreigners now regularly sign up for Bai's tournaments, both on TE and SoD.

But on HeroesWorld, with its cross-portal results, few foreigners are interested in visiting. And nobody cares which version is played here. You understand ?

And for skill to grow, you need to get out of the tank, pour out the beer, put your mind and body in order. And train, both solo and in games with the strongest available opponents.

As it happens, our strongest players rarely lock themselves into one version and one template. They usually play everything across the board. Moreover, preferences revolve far from sod-sm.

What is cause and what is effect here is a separate question; here I'm merely stating a fact.

In reply to wowa

Oelm

10/15/2009 12:59 PM UTC

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Features like disabling morale and removing global cooldowns are detrimental to the game.

Земля нуля.
Все в ней нулево и кукольно.

SpiriTT

10/15/2009 1:03 PM UTC

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1. Any template except balance. I don't want to play on balance. Also less preferred is Jebus Cross; the others are equal. I feel good about 8mm6. 2. Version—SoD, TE-lite. I definitely won't play full because there's a lot I don't get.
3. I would suggest starting from October 30, as the 4th is a Wednesday—not convenient at all in my opinion. I'd love to play 3, but I can't say with 100 percent certainty that I'll be able to make it—in real life, I'm organizing a large football tournament within the institute—40 teams have gathered.
So it's unclear here...

ну это вообще всем аргамездец!© Kash
без авто:smile20:
Человек - игрушка Бога. Этому - то и надо следовать. Надо жить играя.
Платон.

In reply to Alex_R

wowa

10/15/2009 1:13 PM UTC

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Alex_R

... the winners of the finals in different versions could have a battle against each other.

and on what rules, may I ask, will this battle take place? ;)

in my opinion, an attempt is currently being made to identify the rules specifically for the final, so that the most worthy players from Moscow can make it to this final, and at the same time, the others can practice in the hope that it will be useful – because the rules will definitely be adequate :)

that's why Sag organized a vote with the aim of reconciliation – I hope that everyone who wants to will express their opinion, and we will play according to the majority of votes :) the rest either don't play or learn, because that's always useful ;)

I have already expressed my opinion – I am ready to play anything, but for the skill growth of the participants, X-El (3 templates) is preferable, and TE in any form is beneficial for the speed of the games :)

Added after 7 minutes

Oelm

Features – such as disabling morale and removing GS – are a degradation of the game.

this was done to speed up battles (not to think about how to protect against morale) and to guarantee against unforeseen defeats – both complete and partial – after which the games were prolonged

this crap can also be turned off, and in the light version, it is simply disabled by default :)
it practically does not affect the ideology of the battles themselves, and it is not necessary, for example, to say that spirit of oppression is also a degradation, especially since it is easily countered when it appears :D :D :D

In reply to Oelm

SAG

10/15/2009 1:47 PM UTC

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Oelm

Features like disabling morale and removing global skills are detrimental to the game.

The default version is TE-Lite. It includes morale and global skills, and everything else is as it is in SOD.

SpiriTT

I would suggest a date starting from October 30th, as November 4th is a Wednesday, which is not very convenient in my opinion.

We will finalize the exact date later. But as far as I understand, November 4th is a holiday, the anniversary of the revolution or something similar, a day off.
P.S. I updated the first post based on the feedback received.

Играю на www.heroes-III.com

In reply to SAG

PReDS

10/15/2009 1:49 PM UTC

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SAG

the default version is TE-Lite. It includes morality and GS, etc. Everything is like in SOD.

We'll determine the exact date later. But as far as I understand, November 4th is a holiday celebrating the revolution or something else, so it's a day off.
P.S. I've updated the first post based on the feedback received.

It's like the militia drove the Poles out of Moscow. It's a day off, but it falls on a Wednesday, which doesn't align with the other days.