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Posts from Amendment to section 5.2.1 of the Hv rules (regarding quick-cast spells).

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Should point 5.2.1 be removed from the rules?
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In reply to Oelm
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#111
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Oelm
I don't even know. Then artillery units will have an advantage over Dungeon, where Lorelei and Shahti with 1 stack might appear. But on the other hand, not the strongest castles are available at the start for artillery, so I agree, but when should this restart be taken? For example, if I have a good starting position, I will play even without a ballista.
No, you need to approach this issue differently. For example, allow restarting only if the hero hasn't left the castle. First, observe, and then decide whether to restart or not.

It's been a long time since restarts should have been implemented for Pikedram, Ufretin, and Lorelei.

Of course, you need to decide immediately whether to play or not, without any scouting!

P.S.: And in general, for reference. Ballista and Tent are used by specialists instead of level 2 monsters, because there are no Jems with gnomes or Pirs with ogres in SoD. Accordingly, the probability of a machine appearing is the same as that of a level 2 stack.
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Offline Wicc
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#112
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If such restarts are implemented, they should be made mandatory. For example, if none of the three starting heroes have a ballista, a restart is triggered. This is simply to avoid prolonging the game.
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Offline Oelm
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#113
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I disagree with this approach. If Шахтер has 3 stacks, let him play against Лорелей. A mandatory rest is the only viable strategy.
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Offline bRitvo4kA
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#114
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I agree with Wicc – it could be made mandatory to restart the game if the main hero doesn't have a war machine.
As for whether it should be mandatory to restart the game if the second hero is Piguegram, Lorelei, Ufretin, or Stracker, that's a debatable question.
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Offline Javdet
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#115
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bRitvo4kA
I agree with Wicc - it could be made so that the game restarts if the main hero doesn't have a war machine.
As for whether it should be mandatory to restart the game when Piguegram, Lorelei, Ufretin, and Stracker appear as the second hero, that's a debatable question.

mandatory at the request of the affected player.
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.
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Offline Wicc
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#116
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Javdet
mandatory, but only if the affected player wants it.
Imagine the blue player is affected. If it's done at the player's discretion, the red player makes a full turn, then the blue player makes a full turn, and only then will it become clear that this is a mandatory rest (and in most cases, it will). That is, a lot of time is wasted.
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Offline Javdet
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#117
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That's true, but the situation might turn out in a way that you'll regret it. For example, Peer on top and in the tavern, with Gosh, Kregg, Gunnar, etc. (underline the necessary ones), and you'll need to hide Ifrits...
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.
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Offline Wicc
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#118
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Well, at the same time, such unfair deals will be avoided. :)

In any case, this doesn't happen very often, and in 90+% of cases, there will still be a restart.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#119
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I was just thinking. If Gurnisson doesn't have a ballista, it's a restart, but if Bron doesn't have basilisks, can we still play? It won't work! :smile29:
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Offline Дубровин Павел
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#120
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bRitvo4kA
I agree with Wicc - it could be made mandatory to restart the game if the main hero doesn't have a war machine.
As for whether it should be mandatory to restart the game when the second hero is Piguegram, Lorelei, Ufretin, or Stracker, that's a debatable question.


I'm in favor of allowing players who get these specific second heroes to have the option to restart on version 1.1.1.
С истиной где-то рядом...





Лето 2010.
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Offline Wicc
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#121
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And another question – what should be done if the blue player didn't get the ballista, but the red player took the restart on day 1? Should they just stay silent? Or should the red player immediately check the save to see if the blue player had a ballista/lore?
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Offline numOne
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#122
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I think it’s better to leave everything as it is. If you trim and refine everything, the whole charm of randomness will disappear. :) In the end, as someone already said, Gosha and Shakhter with 1 stack are just as much of a problem as Pira/Gurney without a ballista. Besides, there’s almost always a chance that a good replacement for the starting hero or a second decent hero will appear, who will share his native weapon! :) I myself often play as ballistics and there has always been an alternative. Besides, the standard 111, 113 heroes are still viable.
Пусть мой враг будет силен и страшен. Если я поборю его, то не буду чувствовать стыда.
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Offline bRitvo4kA
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#124
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For Pir, Christian, and Arlash, the ballista is less critical and important than it is for Gurnisson, because without the ballista at the start, he is practically useless, as half of his ranged attack power comes from it. Without it, significant losses are inevitable; I always take a rest if it's not there. And building a forge, then a ballista workshop, and then buying it for 2500... you can see how that goes. We can allow a non-mandatory rest, but at the player's discretion, with the condition that it can only be taken immediately. If, for example, such a misfortune happens to a blue player, the player must immediately declare it.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#125
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bRitvo4kA
it's less useful for Gurnisson, because without a ballista at the start, he's practically useless, as half of his ranged attack power comes from it.
Bron without basilisks is also useless, so let's make restarting mandatory. :smile02:

P.S.: Those who want to always play with a ballista don't realize that they are taking another step towards TE ;)
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Offline Alex_R
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#126
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A hero without a ballista means restart. Finding Picadry or Ufretin in the tavern means restart. And so on. We went in the wrong direction... numOne and Dirty_Player were right. P.S. We should reduce the number of restarts and the amount of text in the rules.
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