Posts from Mini-Tournament "For Sale" Auto-translated

Well, I'm finally back online! I haven't had internet or a computer until today! Sorry for not sending any saves. I knew that 3 days would be a walk in the park. And I physically couldn't manage it in 2 days – I've been out of the loop for the whole month and still am. Respect to everyone! Maybe someone can post videos of battles in the "Can" and "Grokhot" maps?

The battle for the Relic is quite simple. Just look at Dmitry’s save to understand this. The whole trick was to choose the right hero and recruit angels into the army.

maybe someone can upload videos of battles in the "Conflux" and "Rampart" maps?

It will be done, but a little later, please be patient ;)

The battle for the Conflux itself is very simple. Just look at Dmitry's save to understand this. The whole trick was to choose the right hero and take angels into the army.

It fights perfectly well even without angels, although not on the second day. Although, as far as I know, there is a save for the Conflux battle without angels on the second day, and for the Fortress, instead of angels, there are silver pegasi.

2Dirty
Everything was great! But now there are no tournaments, which is a little sad... I participated for the first time and thought that this kind of action wasn't uncommon here. Although I still haven't figured it out completely. But one thing is clear - offline events are awesome! Will there be a continuation?

Everything was great! But now there are no tournaments, which is a bit sad... I participated for the first time and thought that this kind of event wasn't uncommon here. Although I still haven't quite figured it out. But one thing is clear - offline events are awesome! Will there be a sequel?

There will be a sequel, but not right away. Organizing such a tournament drains all the organizer's inspiration. The person needs to rest. And in the meantime, you can play other versions of Heroes :p

2Dirty
Everything was great! But now there are no tournaments, which is a little sad... I participated for the first time and thought that this kind of event wasn't uncommon here. Although, I still haven't quite figured it out. But one thing is clear - offline events are awesome! Will there be a continuation?

Thank you! The next offline tournament for Heroes 3 will be approximately on September 8th - this will be the eighth stage of the VK tournament. The organizer, presumably, will be me, but... let's see how things go!

For now, you can also play other versions of Heroes :p

Or other versions of the portal... :D There's a lot to explore here; on HP, there are three tournaments for Heroes III running simultaneously – you can barely keep up with making the finals... :)

Okay, thanks for the clarification. I'll be waiting for September 8th, and in the meantime, I guess I'll play Heroes of Might and Magic!

Whew, sorry I didn't send the save file, but I couldn't. I thought 3 days was the minimum, but it turned out to be 2 days. By the way, I completed it in 3 turns and with 8 gems.

The result of a player who played unfairly and also failed to submit their description (save files) on time, as requested by the tournament organizer, will be annulled, and their further participation in tournaments will be impossible.

P.S. From Dirty_Player: we are waiting for descriptions from the winning players, namely: vbn, DmitriyAS, invisible, in order to promptly finalize the results and carry out the award ceremony.

This doesn't look very good. If an underdog had won, such a result would probably already have been annulled.
I understand that Vbn is an experienced player with a "reputation" and is beyond suspicion, but aren't the rules the same for everyone? Formally, the organizer did not specify a "deadline" for submitting save files and descriptions, but what good will these descriptions do if they appear in the thread a month later? Who among the participants, especially the newcomers, will return to the half-forgotten playthrough to analyze and learn?
It's a shame if this example of excellent management technique remains just a set of letters in a forgotten thread.
If the winner has temporarily lost internet connection, I ask the organizer to find out and inform everyone.
If, however, the connection is still available, I ask the organizer to remind Vbn that his save files and descriptions are awaited (were awaited?) by dozens of innocent people. :)

Okay, I'll answer briefly. The winners should report directly to the organizer, not to the other participants – that's point one!
Respected vbn reported to me via ICQ. I clarified all the questions that interested me – that's point two.
Actually, the description is already ready, everything is in the best possible shape, because vbn really tried to make everything perfect, and he's just being let down by his internet connection this weekend. He will definitely upload it very soon – that's point three...
And finally: if a newcomer had won, I would naturally have contacted him and discussed everything. The results would have been annulled if the player had disappeared for a long time and not been in touch... But in any case, the organizer always tries to accommodate the players!

It doesn't look very good. If a dark horse had won, the result would probably have already been annulled.
Of course, I understand that vbn is an experienced player with a "name" and is beyond suspicion, but aren't the rules the same for everyone? Formally, the organizer did not specify a "deadline" for submitting saves and descriptions, but what will be the use of these descriptions if they appear in the thread a month later? Which of the participants, especially newcomers, will return to the half-forgotten Walkthrough to analyze and learn?
It’s a pity if an example of excellent management technique remains just a set of letters in a forgotten topic.
If the winner has temporarily lost connection to the internet, I ask the organizer to find out somehow and inform everyone.
If there is still a connection, then I ask the organizer to remind vbn that his saves and descriptions are waiting (were waiting?) for dozens of innocent people.:)

I deeply apologize for making the tournament participants wait so long for my description. First, I was overwhelmed with real-life matters, and then the internet went down for 4 days. Both at home and at work, I did everything I could to get back online as soon as possible. Now the internet is working, and I will post the description immediately.

Regarding the annulment of my result, or anyone else's.
Respected Dirty_Player has already written everything. I will only add that I answered all questions from the organizers regarding the Walkthrough completely, and even more ;)
I sent the saves not only to him but also made them available publicly.
Please see my messages 191 with the saves and 212 with a brief description of the Walkthrough.

I myself was very worried that the participants might lose interest... Once again, I apologize for the delay.
Now I am posting my description.

Walkthrough description for the For Sale tournament.

Preliminary study of the map in the editor showed that any hero takes 2 days to reach any of the castles on the map. It is impossible to reach the central castle in 1 day. Moner, who always has the highest amount of MP (Move Points) at the start, fell short of the castle by 2 cells, assuming all resources blocking the way were removed. Thus, by capturing enemy castles on the 2nd day and buying new heroes in them, it will be possible to complete all quests. Therefore, the minimum guaranteed completion time became clear — 2 game days.
Of course, completing the quest with the Crystal Dragon and passing to Pandora's Box via the Quest Guardian in the northeast was not part of the plan, as this could only be done on the 3rd day of the game due to the complete loss of one turn when heroes embark or disembark from a boat.
I didn't plan any specific tactics for the 2nd day at all, setting a goal to advance all heroes as far as possible toward the 3 castles, while not forgetting to collect the most valuable piles of resources lying along the way.
Which heroes (and how many) to buy?
1st hero — Jelu, given at the start, necessary for passage to the enemy Stronghold.
2nd hero — Roland, available in the tavern, needed for the starting army.
3rd hero — Gunnar, available in the tavern, needed for the starting army.
4th hero — to complete the quest for 6 defense. For this, it is best to use heroes of the Beastmaster class (Trapper), as they start with 4 defense, and there is a good probability that upon leveling up just 2 levels, the hero will be given +1 defense both times. Three heroes were suitable for this role: Wistan, Brohild, and Bron. By mistake, I chose Brohild, although Wistan always has more MP at the start (since he never has slow gnolls at the start, and lizards have a speed of 5 (like a lizard specialist), based on which MP is calculated), plus starting Archery.
5th hero — for the battle with the conservatory and titans. I considered it necessary to conduct the battle specifically with the 1st hero, as after the conservatory, he would be well-leveled for the battle with titans. We have 27 snipers, which means an expert Archery skill is necessary. Only Enova can obtain this earliest (by raising 1 level), since she has advanced Archery at the start. Therefore, the choice was simple, especially considering that Enova was given Luck. Grindana is immediately ruled out for taking the conservatory, as there is nothing to level up on for at least 2 levels (there are few neutrals, and it's a pity to waste chests).
6th hero — Dragon the mage. Appears at the start with 1 sorcerer, and a sorcerer can do great things anywhere. A wonderful aid for taking the conservatory.
7th hero — Gem the druid. The only hero who has the Summon Boat spell at the start, which is necessary for landing in the sea on the 1st day.
8th hero — to capture the Necropolis. The hero must have the Pathfinding skill at the start to reduce the penalty when moving across sand. Gretchen, Corbak, and Clancy are available. I chose the first one based on her having max MP.
9th hero — Corbak with pathfinding, to help Gretchen. Thus, if you save on buying Corbak and visit the Shipwreck on the sand with Gretchen, she will not reach the Necropolis on the 2nd day. But in the Shipwreck there is 3000 gold. Therefore, it is more profitable to spend 2500 on a hero and immediately recover at least 3000 (not counting resource collection).
10th hero — a fast-mover to capture the central castle. Pir was chosen (free ballista — saving on troops, starting Logistics)
11th hero — a fast-mover to kill the Devils (Moner).

And now for the step-by-step description.

Day 1.
01) Jelu takes the gold near the dwarves, kills the dwarves, and takes the chest on the road.
02) We buy Roland (followed by Brohild), he takes the chest.
03) We buy Brohild (followed by Enova) and a spellbook. Brohild is a trapper; through oversight, I chose him for the 6 defense quest, preferring him over Bron, and — mistakenly — Wistan, who has more MP at the start and starting Archery (though archery never came in handy, but extra MP is never redundant). In Wistan's case, it would have been possible to pick up a pile of wood for 0.8 gems.
04) Brohild takes Pandora's Box, gains Navigation exp, completes the 6 defense quest, and gives the shooters to Jelu.
05) We buy Enova (followed by Dragon the mage).
06) We buy Dragon (followed by Pir).
07) Jelu takes the ore on the road.
08) Dragon buys 7 elves, takes gold, a chest, sulfur, meets Jelu, who upgrades the elves to snipers and immediately gives them back. Then Dragon buys 2 unicorns in the glade (most likely it was possible to do without buying them, saving 1700 gold, which would later cost 17 precious resources, or 3.4 gems), takes the chest near the gorgons, returns and gives all troops to Brohild, remaining with 1 gnoll. After this, Dragon is dismissed, and Brohild returns back toward the shore, stopping 2 cells short of the castle.
09) Roland takes all troops from Brohild, recovers the Chaos helmet from the hydra and — HURRAH! — takes the first 4 gems and dives into the portal.
10) Enova, without losing a single cell of movement, heads to the spring, receiving all troops from Roland along the way. After visiting the spring 5 times before each new battle for guarded resources, Enova manages to gain +2 levels (expert Archery + basic Luck), and attacks the conservatory of griffins and titans.

Troop deployment in the conservatory battle:
12 centaurs + 1 centaur + 2 unicorns + 27 snipers + 1 sorcerer + 3 dwarves + 1 centaur.
Battle losses:
2 unicorns + 3 dwarves + 10 centaurs.

The battle by no means claimed to be perfect or have minimal losses. For example, it was not possible to get the Sorcerer to cast slow in the 1st round. Perhaps a loose griffin was to blame, but although it gave the right of first move, it lowered army morale by 1 (units of 3 races). The battle was won thanks to triple blinding of griffins by unicorns, morale and luck, and subsequent casting of slow by the Sorcerer.

Save before the griffin battle (4s_griff.GM1) 40 kb
Archive save before the griffin battle (4s_griff.rar) 40 kb
Video of the griffin battle (angels_0.swf) 5860 kb
Archive video of the griffin battle (angels.zip) 4015 kb

Troop deployment in the titan battle:
1 sorcerer + 2 angels + 1 centaur + 1 angel + 2 centaurs + 1 centaur + 27 snipers.
Battle losses:
1 angel, 1 sorcerer, 4 centaurs.
Brief description of the battle: 1 angel blocks the titans in the 1st round, the Sorcerer casts mass haste, after which the titans are covered by centaurs, and 2 angels destroy the djinns after Wait. The Sorcerer had to be sacrificed to save both angels. Naturally, it didn't happen without luck (morale was neutral).

Save before the titan battle (4s_titan.GM1) 40 kb
Archive save before the titan battle (4s_titan.rar) 40 kb
Video of the titan battle (titans_0.swf) 4358 kb
Archive video of the titan battle (titans.zip) 4359 kb

11) We buy Gunnar (followed by Gem with boat summoning).
12) We buy Gem (followed by Corbak).
13) Gunnar takes the snipers and angels from Enova, after which Enova is dismissed, and Gunnar transfers all troops to Gem, keeping 1 sniper for himself, and goes into the portal, where he takes a chest and campfire.
14) We buy Corbak (followed by Gretchen).
15) Corbak takes 6 snipers from Gem and 1 centaur from Roland (the latter is dismissed), and goes into the sands, where he destroys beholders with the loss of 1 centaur and plunders the Shipwreck without losses.
16) We buy Gretchen (followed by Moner).
17) Gretchen rushes into the sands, where she finds another chest and stops with one sniper one cell of movement away from storm elementals.
18) We buy Pir (followed by Dragon the mage).
19) Pir with a ballista and 5 snipers goes to the dungeon, captures an abandoned gem mine without losses and takes 3 gems near the wolf riders, after which her turn ends.
20) Gem gives Brohild Titan's Thunder (here you can save another 500 gold = 1 gems if you don't buy a spellbook for Brohild, since when transferring Titan's Thunder to a hero, a spellbook appears for that hero automatically), troglodytes and harpies, and the rest of the army to Jelu, who kills gorgons with them. After this, Gem takes the army back and visits the Dwarven Treasury.
21) We buy Moner (followed by Dessa).
22) Brohild summons a boat and boards it.
23) Moner buys 1 centaur (– 0.14 gems) and plunders the cyclops vault:
1 centaur + 1 angel + 1 angel + 1 centaur + 1 centaur + 13 snipers + 1 centaur.
Losses — all single-unit centaurs.

24) And then — the last word belongs to Jelu, who cannot live without his snipers. He takes that damn dozen from Moner, thereby sending the latter off on angels, who manage to plunder the Medusa Warehouses once more.

This ended the 1st day with a result of 11 gems and 4643 gold in the treasury.

Save at the end of Day 1 (4s_0168.GM1) 40 kb
Archive save at the end of Day 1 (4s_0168.rar) 40 kb

Day 2.
01) Pir and Gunnar eat up all resources on the way to their new cottage. Only, Gunnar didn't make it — and was dismissed — and now only Pir can dream of new apartments at the cost of the titanic effort of all other heroes.
02) It is thought that Gem, before being dismissed, managed to pay for herself by collecting resources on the road leading to the spring.
03) Corbak transfers snipers to Gretchen, and the latter destroys stormers at the cost of two of their souls.
04) Brohild visits a shipwreck, takes Prophecy Maps (as it turned out, this was unnecessary), visits the Fountain of Youth, breaks through water elementals, collects debris, and visits the Naga Vault. There is no point in describing the battle while having Titan's Thunder. It was different in the first playthrough, when besides same small stuff there was only 1 angel and 13 snipers. Then another Shipwreck, Abandoned Ship and a couple of pieces of debris, and — successful landing at the necromancers' castle.
05) Jelu collects resources, advancing along the road to air elementals, after killing them he visits the Rallying Flag, then destroys earth elementals guarding ore, and again the Flag; finally, water elementals are destroyed, and once more Jelu visits the Flag.
06) Moner visits the Flag, opens the Imp Pit, again the Flag, walking dead, Devil. After all this, Moner also triggers a quest for +22 ogres, whom he transfers to Jelu along with angels, while he himself is dismissed with 1 sniper (here, by the way, another mistake: dismissing him with ogres instead of a sniper would have saved another 0.08 gems).
07) Jelu triggers the Quest Guardian, captures the empty Barbarian castle and stays in it.
08) Gretchen captures the Necropolis.
09) In the Necropolis we buy Dragon the mage (followed by Enova).
10) Dragon takes Thunder, as well as troglodytes and harpies from Brohild, after which the latter is dismissed. Then Dragon gives all troops to Gretchen except 1 sniper, and destroys Claudius himself and stops at the Seer's Hut.
11) In the Stronghold we buy Enova (followed by Claudius).
12) With 2 angels, 13 snipers, 22 ogres and magic, Enova destroys Kilgor, losing 1 ogre.
13) Kilgor is destroyed — and Dragon completes a quest for +21 gems, after which he is dismissed.
14) In the Stronghold we buy Claudius (followed by Kilgor).
15) In the Necropolis we buy Kilgor.
16) Kilgor takes artifacts and troops from Gretchen, the latter is dismissed, and Kilgor destroys Haart, losing a harpy and a couple of troglodytes, then visits the Cyclops Vault and brings Titan's Thunder to Corbak (another 0.1 gems were lost as a result of Kilgor preferring to take 3 sulfur instead of 7 wood). After this, Dragon is also dismissed, and Corbak, picking up a chest and resources, attacks spearmen and flees to the tavern.
17) Claudius takes troops from Enova, after which she manages before dismissal to complete one more quest for +21 gems.
18) In the Stronghold we buy Corbak (followed by Haart).
19) Claudius gives all troops to Corbak except 18 ogres, then destroys Boragus without losses, collects resources and joins 19 orcs.
20) In the Stronghold we buy Haart, Boragus and Xeron.
21) As a result of clever manipulations, the trio of heroes completes the last 3 quests.
22) Haart with a goblin and Titan's sword triggers the Quest Guardian, behind which lay 77 gems.
23) Xeron with a couple of orcs, Titan's cuirass and a magic arrow for 140 destroys the Devil and completes the quest for 99 mercury.
24) Boragus completes the quest to exchange 22,000 gold for 44 gems. As calculations show, with 3 markets in castles, 220 of any precious resources (e.g., mercury) can be exchanged either for 22,000 gold or for 44 gems. This means that if there is even a little gold in the treasury, it is profitable to complete this quest in any case (of course, one must also consider the cost of the hero who has to be bought to perform this quest, but the hero pays off by collecting chests and resources on the way to the Seer's Hut). In our case, 6,000 gold was missing to complete the quest.
25) Exchanging troops for gold and resources in the mercenaries guild allowed completing a quest for +44 gems and paying the old owner of the "exquisite" castle at a cost of 111 gems.
26) It should be noted that with 3 markets in the mercenaries guild, some troops were more profitable to exchange for gold, and others for resources. For example, 1 angel can be exchanged either for 1500 gold or for 3 gems. But 1500 gold is 15 of any precious resources, giving those same 3 gems. Thus, angels could be exchanged as both gold and gems. Now let's take snipers: 3 snipers give 600 gold or 1 gems. Naturally, it is more profitable to exchange snipers for gold, since 1 gems can be obtained by exchanging 5 of any precious resources, for which one can get only 500, not 600 gold. Finally, let's look at ogres. 3 ogres give only 450 gold and the same 1 gems as 3 snipers. Conclusion: it is more profitable to exchange 3 ogres + 5 precious resources for 1 gems + 500 gold than for 450 gold + 1 gems respectively.
27) With 187 gems and 53 gold in the treasury, Pir steps into her new home.

Victory!

Save at the end of Day 1 (4s_0173.GM1) 40 kb
Archive save at the end of Day 1 (4s_0173.rar) 40 kb

Now we need to calculate how many gems were definitely lost during the playthrough (without changing the strategy): 0.80 (pile of wood in [5; 34]) + 3.40 (2 unicorns) + 1.00 (spellbook) + 0.14 (bought an "extra" centaur) + 0.08 (dismissed hero with sniper instead of ogre) + 0.10 (took sulfur in [23; 6] instead of wood in [25; 1]) + 0.60 (6 wood in [25, 21] — failed logistics) + 0.6 (3 sulfur in [23, 6] — again logistics) + 0.5 (5 ore in [17, 4] — and again logistics). That seems to be all. Thus, I actually missed out on 7.22 gems. I don't know if it was realistically possible to save on buying the 1st hero. Assuming so, we would have gotten another +5 gems. It would also be worth calculating troops that could be exchanged for resources in the Stronghold instead of giving them, say, to Pir (she had a whole 4 snipers left, meaning she could have been given one sniper less on Day 1). It turns out here at most another 1 gems was lost. Summing up, and — surprisingly! — it comes to exactly 187 + 7 + 5 + 1 = 200. And I so dreamed of getting exactly 200 gems. Well, it didn't happen... But it looks very much like it was actually possible!

Oh, and it might also be interesting how many heroes were used during the game. Let's count:

Day 1.
00) Jelu at start.
01) Buy Roland (followed by Brohild).
02) Buy Brohild (followed by Enova)
03) Buy Enova (followed by Dragon the mage).
04) Buy Dragon (followed by Pir).
05) Buy Gunnar (followed by Gem with boat summoning).
06) Buy Gem (followed by Corbak).
07) Buy Corbak (followed by Gretchen).
08) Buy Gretchen (followed by Moner).
09) Buy Pir (followed by Dragon the mage).
10) Buy Moner (followed by Dessa).

Day 2.
01) In Necropolis buy Dragon the mage (followed by Enova).
02) In Stronghold buy Enova (followed by Claudius).
03) In Stronghold buy Claudius (followed by Kilgor).
04) In Necropolis buy Kilgor.
05) In Stronghold buy Corbak (followed by Haart).
08) In Stronghold buy Haart, Boragus and Xeron.

TOTAL: 1 hero at start, 10 heroes bought on Day 1 for a total of 25,000 gold, 8 heroes bought on Day 2 for a total of 20,000 gold. Total 19 heroes bought for 45,000 gold (including 2 heroes bought on Day 2 who were dismissed on Day 1, 1 escaped hero, 4 killed computer player heroes and 1 hero necessary for completing one of the quests).

Reflections on conducting battles using the griffin and titan battles as examples.
This information does not claim to be definitive; these are purely personal thoughts and observations.

It was noticed that when repeating some battles multiple times, everything repeats exactly from round to round — morale and luck rolls, damage dealt, spells cast by same units, etc.
This state of affairs was observed in the griffin conservatory. However, in the battle with titans, djinns cast different spells already in the 1st round.
I came to the conclusion that in internal structures like conservatories, crypts, naga-banks, Dragon Utopia, etc., the battle map (let's call the entire step-by-step process of the battle its "map") remains unchanged when repeating the same actions.

Many people here talk about generating morale using delays. If this is news to anyone: there is an authoritative opinion that morale (luck?) can be manipulated by performing certain steps in a battle after a specific time interval. For example, we have 2 stacks of snipers in our army: 1 + 10 units. It happens that sometimes during the battle, morale triggers for the 10 snipers, and other times it doesn't. Question: what does this depend on? As I said, there is an authoritative opinion from more than one player that the triggering of morale in such cases depends on the time delay between the turn passing to the 10 snipers and the moment of attack (i.e., the shot). But it is still unclear what these delays depend on and what they equal for each specific case.

My opinion is as follows: in battles within internal structures like the griffin conservatory, the above situation is impossible. That is, if a sniper gets morale when repeating the same steps, he will always get it when repeating those steps, regardless of any mysterious delays or anything else.

But regarding battles in open territories (e.g., battle with titans), the assumption about delays undoubtedly has a basis. I'll say right away that to this day, while completing tournaments, I have never used this hypothesis. In particular, I conducted the titan battle under the same assumption as for internal structures. Sometimes for some reason it works (i.e., everything repeats from battle to battle if you repeat the same steps), and sometimes there are several variants. But the question is quite interesting, and I would certainly like to study and discuss it. My personal attitude toward whether the method of using and selecting delays is fair: although I haven't used it (yet), I believe there is nothing wrong with it.

And I started writing about all this because I actually wanted to mention another observation of mine. When conducting a battle with titans on one computer (Windows XP) and another (Windows 2000), the course of the battles was different, and it was impossible to achieve on the 2nd computer what happened on the 1st, and vice versa. But for the conservatory, everything repeated regardless of which computer the battle was conducted on.
By the way, when creating a video-battle with titans, I still failed to repeat the battle as it was during the playthrough. Instead, I managed by chance to play even better. From the video you will see that snipers got luck 4 out of 5 times. Thus, it was possible to save the sorcerer too. The battle was conducted on Windows XP, and every time everything was different; that is, when performing identical steps, the battle maps were most varied. But when I tried to create a video battle on Windows 2000, the battle map was always the same. Such interesting observations…

excellent walkthrough, my playthrough is roughly the same, but I thought 3 days was the absolute minimum. And can you visit the flag and oasis?