Mini-Tournament "For Sale" — Tournament history (offline)

Senatоr

18 years ago

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AmberSoler, thank you for explaining the nuances regarding the boat! Now it's clear why advanced water and literacy were included in Pandora's box.

SoD 3.2, 2SM4d(3), Full random

In reply to Kamikaze

Eldgernon

18 years ago

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Kamikaze;186955

Dima, do you think we cut corners? Honestly, without "Titan's Thunder," I didn't think it would be possible to create something in just two days.

With "Titan's Thunder," it would have been around 150 creatures, and there's no question of cutting corners.
It seems to me that almost everyone worked diligently, but each focused on their own part of the map, without noticing or implementing (for various reasons) the entire theoretically possible range of actions. But within their own "event horizon":) everyone worked hard and to the fullest extent.

P.S. A few requests.
To Dirty Player:
When organizing the next tournament, please consider the general "formula for success" that was discovered in this tournament and formulated by Nzol, which applies to both beginners and experienced players:
"...suggesting a map that is guaranteed to attract a large number of participants - small, with easily achievable objectives, and a huge number of options. This factor played the main role in attracting Heroes players."
To Vbn:
To attract and help beginners progress, don't limit yourself to describing the walkthrough with just dry movements of the heroes. They won't tell beginners much. Instead of the standard "Bought Pier (Dessa)," please provide explanations. Why Pier specifically? For what purpose? For what task? Why does Jelu take chests at the start, and Pandora takes Bronkhild. And so on. After all, the main thing in learning is to grasp the general ideas, and the technique will come with experience.

In reply to WhiteLizard

wolf64

18 years ago

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WhiteLizard;186937

YES YES YES!!! My first tournament, and I'm not in last place!!!!!! HOORAY! Only 22 miserable people are better than me, but at least I'm better than 1! Well, I did great - 20 days, yeah... just a bloodbath - I can't find the words, ugh, I mean letters!

The words 22 miserable are clearly inappropriate. We all love the Heroes game here, and we should treat fellow players, who share the same passion, with respect.
Secondly, the joy over the result is unclear. It's not very good.
I'm also participating in the tournament for the first time, and I finished in 3 days, and I'm not happy with my result because I rushed, didn't analyze everything, missed some things, etc.
But I realized the main thing: there's still a lot to learn from the masters.
And only participating in tournaments gives invaluable experience!

In reply to wolf64

TATARIN

18 years ago

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Live and learn — now I know that I know nothing. :smile29: :smile29: . Thank you for opening my eyes, I'll practice. And still, not being last is already good :smile13:

Andrey44_44

18 years ago

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To the organizers and participants of the tournament! Please settle our dispute with Perpolken. He claims that Jelu reached the Seer on the first day, but I say that's impossible. Who is right?

Perpolken

When you move, check your map!
First, Jelu takes 2 chests (the first at 0/32, then the second at 0,31), then takes the artifact and stands still (3/31).
Riland is hired, and he takes 2 piles of gold (2,33 and 4,33). After taking the 2 piles, he should be directly below Jelu at (3/32).
Jelu transforms 9 archers into sharpshooters, and Riland takes one archer. Riland moves from (3,32 to 2,33) and waits for Jelu's turn. Jelu moves from (3,31 to 4,33), kills the dwarves, and takes the chest (3/33). Riland takes Jelu's army (except for 1 sharpshooter).
Then, Jelu takes 2 chests and stones on the road and visits the hut.

In the first message, I made a mistake and wrote that Jelu gives the archer to Riland. In reality, Riland takes the archer from Jelu.
I apologize for wasting your time and causing you stress.

I hope everything works out for you.

Jelu moves diagonally down-left and diagonally takes a chest for 1500 exp. Then, moving horizontally to the left, he takes a chest for 500 exp. Next, he moves one step to the right and diagonally down-right, then diagonally left-down, taking another chest for 500 exp, and diagonally up-right, he takes the artifact.
We hire Riland, and then, just like you described, things happen. Of course, Riland takes the archer. Then, Jelu moves one step diagonally down-right, attacks the dwarves, and gains 548 exp. Immediately after, standing on the path diagonally prevents him from moving due to a cluster of trees, so he moves one step to the right and diagonally right-down, positioning himself on the path. He takes a chest for 1500 exp, takes the stones, and takes another chest for 1500 exp. And at this point, he gains 6 defense. He moves back - but he's short one move to reach the Seer (i.e., he can still move to the left, but he can't reach the Seer's hut diagonally).
I wrote this from memory, but I think it's accurate because I spent almost a week figuring this out.

In reply to Andrey44_44

Senatоr

18 years ago

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Then, move one step to the right and diagonally down-right, diagonally left-down to take another chest with 500 exp, and diagonally up-right to take a small chest.

Then, he takes the small chest and stays in place... Jelu moves from (3,31) to (4, 33), kills the dwarves, and takes the chest (3/33).

Andrey44_44, this is where your mistake lies. Perpolken described his actions in sufficient detail. I checked, and yes, Jelu does have time to get the spell from the Seer. Jelu doesn't necessarily need to upgrade the archers or change the army. Roland's only task is to collect the gold along Jelu's path. The key point is that the chest at (3,33) needs to be taken from the side, not from above. Although the territory is the same - a clover field. The secret is that an invisible road runs horizontally under the clover field from (3,33) to (4,33). And the chest needs to be taken along this road to save movement points. Then, he will have time to reach the Seer for the spell.

Here is another important point that I learned from my debut in offline tournaments: when initially scouting the map, it is important to check the paths under landscapes with special properties. This can save valuable movement points in the game.

SoD 3.2, 2SM4d(3), Full random

Andrey44_44

18 years ago

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Thank you, Senator, for the very clear and detailed explanation about the roads under the landscape – I hadn’t even considered that, and I didn’t know about this feature. My apologies to Perpolken.

In reply to Senatоr

Eldgernon

18 years ago

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Senatоr;187015

Although the area is the same – a clover field.

By the way, about the field. The clover field gives +2 luck to neutral units. Snipers are kind of neutral. But in a battle with Titans, their luck is somehow neutral. Can anyone suggest a reason?

Ley

18 years ago

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2 senator: the search for those very roads is only needed when the "pathfinding" skill is present, because without it, the hero chooses the shortest path to the destination himself, and in this case, that will be the road itself. But overall, the conclusion is very useful ;-)

"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."

In reply to Ley

AmberSoler

18 years ago

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Ley;187031

2 senator: the search for those very roads is only needed when the "pathfinding" skill is present, because without it, the hero chooses the shortest path to the destination himself, and in this case, it will be the road itself. But overall, the conclusion is very useful ;-)

In general, it's correct, except for one point - the computer will never suggest how to properly pick up an object on the map. When moving past an object, the computer will suggest picking it up diagonally, which will cost 141 mp, while the player can, when passing by the object, pick it up in a straight line, aligning with it - the movement point cost will be 100 mp in this case. So, it's better not to trust the computer with logistics... :)

And the road is not always the shortest path; it all depends on the hero's further direction of movement after he picks up the object on the map. Sometimes, going to the road will cost more than moving past it...

Сначала было слово...
FizMiG v.2.0 *** Очередное обновление справочника! *** http://vk.com/fizmig

In reply to AmberSoler

Andrey44_44

18 years ago

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AmberSoler;187032

And the road is not always the shortest path; it all depends on the hero's further direction of movement after picking up an object on the map. Sometimes, reaching the road will cost more than moving past it...

Of course, everything depends on the circumstances, but in this case, it is the only correct solution, as it saves the amount of MP (since moving along the road consumes less MP), which is just enough to enter the hut of the Seer.

In reply to Andrey44_44

AmberSoler

18 years ago

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Andrey44_44;187033

Of course, everything depends on the circumstances, but in this case, it is the only correct solution, as it saves the amount of MP (since moving along the road consumes less MP), which is not enough to enter the hut of the seer.

My remark about the road was in general, without reference to this conversation, so as not to create the illusion that moving along the road is the only correct thing to do...

And one more thing. To implement subtle logistics, it is highly recommended to use the arrow keys on the keyboard, as the mouse does not always allow you to make a move exactly as the player needs. As a result, the loss of movement points is guaranteed, while theoretically the player has calculated everything correctly...

If I'm not mistaken, in the first BB, one of the quests set by VDV_forever could only be completed using the keyboard, while the mouse would inevitably lead the hero to a hidden event... :D

Сначала было слово...
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WhiteLizard

18 years ago

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From wolf64: "The words '22 days' are clearly inappropriate."

No, of course, I didn't mean to offend anyone; I just wasn't able to emphasize the irony because I was so shocked. I love Heroes3 myself, and I respect the people who achieve such (2-day) feats. I was more trying to make fun of my own result than those 22 people. In fact, they deserve their place! I didn't really try, and I only played the map once. Although I had a lot of ideas: hire a Dragon, a Sauragat (he brings gems), the same Gem, Korbak, and I don't even need to mention Xeron... It's silly to talk about who was in first place and who was in last place now... My result was 14 days/3 gems - clearly an outsider!
Dirty came up with a great tournament! Congratulations to him.

And by the way! Dirty, how are you? Maybe you'll organize another tournament, and I'd be happy to help you create a map!

In reply to Eldgernon

AmberSoler

18 years ago

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Eldgernon;187026

By the way, regarding the terrain. A clover field gives +2 luck to neutral units. Snipers are considered neutral. But in a battle against Titans, their luck is somehow neutral. Can anyone explain the reason?

There are three types of neutral units in the game (at least, in the Russian versions of the game):

1. Neutral units on the map - monsters that stand guard over resources, passages, etc.

2. Neutral units in a hero's army - troops that do not belong to any of the castles (this includes Snipers).

3. Troops of neutral castles - Fortress, Conflux, Stronghold, i.e., those with a neutral alignment in contrast to the forces of Evil (Dungeon, Inferno, Necropolis) and Good (Castle, Tower, and Rampart).

A clover field gives +2 Luck to troops of neutral castles. That is, it only affects point 3.

P.s. Morale and Luck bonuses on various terrains only apply to the alignment of the troops.

Сначала было слово...
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Kamikaze

18 years ago

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Another important point for such fast-paced maps.
If you dismiss your own hero (or defeat an opponent's), then when you purchase them, their movement points will increase significantly (but don't leave them to spend the night in a tavern). Destroyed computer-controlled heroes play a particularly strong role (Hart and Kilgore were both logisticians, plus Kilgore took Pandora on the first day and gained experience). It is precisely them (read the rules carefully: "4. You can hire a defeated enemy hero at any time"), as well as your own heroes, dismissed yesterday (again, check the rules: "1. You cannot hire a dismissed hero on the day of dismissal. On any other day, you can"), that you should look for in taverns first on maps that last two or three days. Or at least Jela and Dragon (I almost forgot about the latter :o), who start with 1900 movement points.