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Posts from Tactics for the Swamp (Fortress).

Tactics
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#334
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Based on everything mentioned above, my conclusion is as follows: The Swamp Castle is strong on S maps and possibly on M maps, but it will hardly be able to compete with other castles on XL maps. The Fortress's strength lies in its rapid development at the initial stage, but then things go downhill because others catch up. Its creatures are not particularly powerful...
no comments...
How many threads are there about the swamp? It seems like they discuss the same thing everywhere.
Read here; they have already described everything in detail:
/topic/3873/

According to preliminary data from online games of the winter season on this portal, the Swamp Castle ranks 4th in terms of the number of games played with it compared to the number of victories achieved with it. For comparison, I can say that there were more than six hundred games in total during the season. After the season ends, I will publish more accurate data here (or in another thread about the swamp – how many of them are there?) if anyone is interested.

P.S.
The Gorgon has the highest health and defense among creatures of her level. However, her attack, damage, and especially speed significantly reduce her combat effectiveness. Her Deadly Gaze is certainly very good, as it usually deals more damage to creatures of levels 7 and higher than her regular attack. But if you don't let her get close to creatures of levels 6-7 (which is quite possible due to her low speed), she loses all her usefulness.
I didn't think they would nerf it so much :smile52:
Я ламер и играть не умею, нах!:smile33:
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Offline TWELF 12
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#335
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[/U]
You say that a Gorgon is a weak creature...
Interesting, and where did I say that a Gorgon is a weak creature?!
The remaining problems are solved with mass haste... or Gorgons in the central slot - so that they can reach any point...
To make mass haste, someone needs to have a decent speed. The Dragonfly has a speed of 13, here it will only outrun the Necropolis, Tower, and Stronghold, but what about the rest? Moreover, the chance that the Swamp hero will get Air magic is not high, to put it mildly, it is very low.
And on top of all this, at the start (in the 1st week), there is a minimum of 8 defense + expert defense and with Tazar... so try to kill it with your attack of 1-3 (except for the Stronghold... that's a different story).
I wrote that it is very difficult to compete with the Swamp on S and M maps. Why prove it again? Everyone already understands. You should read my post more carefully...
Guys, if you play offline at home with a computer on a pawn, then this is possible...
I haven't played on a pawn for a long time. Mostly Rook - Queen.
And if you saw how one of the creators of TE, the maestro Horn, manages this Castle... I think you would change your opinion about the Swamp.
Of course, how can I compare myself to such professionals :). I doubt that anything or anyone will be able to radically change my opinion about the Swamp.
СМЕРТЬ ПОПСЕ!:smile10:
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Offline Рыцарь света
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#336
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TWELF 12, and no one will force you to publicly admit that your opinion is wrong. Everyone has their own opinion, and you have every right to disagree. But you are underestimating Fortress.
RAPER, there's no need to even talk about archers – they really don't look much like archers. What kind of archers are they? Although, it's good that there are at least some. I won't argue about anything else – I like everything, and it's all really great, with the exception of the three mage guilds. Three levels for a guild is too little.
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Offline RAPER
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#337
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RAPER, there’s no need to even talk about archers there – they really aren’t that good as archers.
Well, it’s all a matter of opinion… I don’t want to go back to this topic because I’ve already explained everything…
And if you think Swamp is weak, you’re wrong… ;) My advice to you is to play in offline tournaments – you’ll learn a lot of new things. Maybe then you’ll understand…
Of course, how can I compare myself to such professionals? I doubt that anything or anyone will radically change my opinion about Swamp.
Well, that’s up to you…
I, for example, strive to improve. But if you just keep saying that some are weak, others lack strength, some are slow, and others have a huge growth rate… then you’ll just keep playing as Castle and Rampart, which are fine… but that won’t give you any skill… ;)... And in general, each Castle is unique in its own way. And in the hands of an average player, Swamp will be stronger than an imbalanced Conflux… FACT!
Thank you for your attention.
Sincerely, RAPER
играю на уровне AI !!:smile32: ;)
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Offline Рыцарь света
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#338
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Raper, why do I think Fortress is weak? I never said that. On the contrary, I've always supported it in all discussions. I find it quite good in many ways.
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Offline kien
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#339
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I recently lost to the Swamp faction while playing as the Fortress (lost to another player). Can you give me some advice? Maybe I missed some nuances (I was focusing on archers). Unfortunately, I used all my restarts, and on the third try, the wooden mine was only found on the third week – Champions only appeared around that time. I understood that my opponent was playing a strong faction, but I couldn't imagine how strong! He captured my castle on the second attempt, barely exerting any effort. The number of his units was terrifying, and I couldn't do anything. (I've played against and as the Swamp faction many times. I could win playing as it, but not against it). Is the Fortress, once it gains momentum, truly unstoppable, and is there a way to counter it?
Besides advice and tactics, I'd like to hear real stories about such matches (and not necessarily when playing as the Fortress).
Спортсменом можешь ты не быть, но пыль в глаза пустить обязан!
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Offline Князь
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#340
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Fortress is a quite strong castle when it’s well-developed from the early stages and the hero is leveled up, like Tazar, for example. The only downside of the Swamp is the lack of good archers, especially when playing against Haven, but in my experience playing as Swamp, I often win against Haven. The most important thing is to prevent the upgrade of Archangels and to gather as many Wyverns and Gargoyles as possible. I play 1v1 constantly, but I don’t enter the leaderboard. Take a look; there are examples of code where Swamp is stronger than Castle (read it).
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#341
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If you play on random maps, then Swamp is stronger than Castle (arguments and debates will now begin :). I have links to reports of online battles in my signature, where there are good games played by strong players using Swamp. Read them; I think there's something to learn from them. You can also read the reports from last season here. We can argue endlessly, but you can find out what Swamp is capable of in practice by reading these reports.
Based on this statistics of games from last season on random maps, it’s hard to say that Swamp is weak :)
Я ламер и играть не умею, нах!:smile33:
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Offline kien
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#342
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I think that if you compare the Fortress soldiers individually with units of other factions at the same levels (1-1, 2-2...), then perhaps the Fortress won't seem that impressive. But when they work together, they are a force to be reckoned with. Firstly, they don't have any useless units. That is, there are no creatures whose development is not really necessary (at least not in long games or on TOO rich maps). For example, Cyclops in the Stronghold (due to their high cost), Knights in the Castle (they are useful, but buying them all doesn't make sense), Demons in the Inferno (similar to the Knights), Gargoyles in the Tower (they become obsolete as you gain experience and build Nagas and Titans). Maybe someone won't agree with me (but this is my opinion). The Talia's army is interconnected, and when fully assembled, it represents a formidable force.
Спортсменом можешь ты не быть, но пыль в глаза пустить обязан!
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Offline Qwerty
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#343
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kien;167815
It seems to me that if you compare the Fortress soldiers individually with units of other factions at the same levels (1-1, 2-2...), then, perhaps, the Swamp faction won't look that impressive. But when they work together, they are a force to be reckoned with. Firstly, they don't have any useless units. That is, creatures whose development is not necessarily required (at least not in long games and not on TOO rich maps). For example, these are Cyclops in the Stronghold (due to their high cost), Knights in the Castle (they are generally needed, but buying them all doesn't make sense), Demons in Inferno (similar to the Knights), Gargoyles in the Tower (they become irrelevant as you gain experience and build Nagas and Titans). Perhaps someone will disagree with me (but this is my opinion). The Talia's army is interconnected and, when fully assembled, represents a formidable force.
A very unexpected perspective on the issue. I can't imagine playing the Tower faction without Gargoyles at all; if both heroes don't have them, I feel a bit sad (hero speed + Gremlin cover + controlling neutral creatures during ranged combat).
The units in the Swamp faction are not bad, but some of them have very different levels of usefulness. For example, without ambushes and other tactics, the Lizardmen quickly become ineffective, and Goblins are not always used in the third week, although this does happen...
Overall, the Swamp faction is very strong, but I would attribute this to the presence of Tazar, Bron with their corresponding starting army, Snakes with their speed, upgraded Gorgons with their drowning ability, Hydras, and the quick construction of Wyverns.

Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер
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Offline kien
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#344
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I won't argue – I did write rather harshly about the units back then. I just wanted to say that the units in the Tower aren't exactly cheap. And considering the limited resources, I think players will buy gargoyles (at least all of them, or at least a certain number, as they are undoubtedly needed) last.
Спортсменом можешь ты не быть, но пыль в глаза пустить обязан!
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Offline Рыцарь света
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#348
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Kien, I simply can't understand how anyone can consider any unit unnecessary, whether it's a Gargoyle or an Imp. Of course, I would probably buy them last, but I would still buy them in any case. They will be very useful in battle.
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Offline kien
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#349
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Knight of Light; 171912
Kien, I just don't understand how anyone can consider someone unnecessary, whether it's gargoyles or devils. Of course, I would buy them, perhaps as a last resort, but I would still buy them in any case. They are very useful in battle.
Okay. Let's assume that everyone who disagrees with me has no money problems. They boldly buy an army and go into battle. But what about the fact that you freed the canned angels and wyverns? Will you leave them in the city and go only with your native army? Or do you have more than 7 stacks of units? I have nothing against any units, but when freeing angels and wyverns, I would leave the weaker ones or simply not buy the same units that I listed in previous posts. The situation is different with the Swamp faction. There is an opportunity to strengthen and increase the number of free wyverns. But as for the angels. Perhaps I would leave the gnolls if their number was unacceptably small, but still, the choice is quite difficult.
Спортсменом можешь ты не быть, но пыль в глаза пустить обязан!
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Offline Loken
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#350
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Heh-heh-heh. Tazar, with the Earth Expert, decides the outcome.
Ideally, also – tactics and air units. Then, with haste, the entire army tears the enemy's throat in the very first turn. Almost all of the Fortress's troops retreat when the remaining half of the enemy warriors get a chance to strike back.
If the enemy closes in first, use the Shield spell.
Because taking only 10% damage is overpowered.
Besides, it has long been proven that defense in Heroes of Might and Magic III is much more effective than attack.
That's all. The Swamp faction is awesome. Simple and effective.
Первый, кто был забанен за Правду.
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Offline Forrest
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#351
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Loken;174347
if the enemy closes in first - shield.
because taking only 10% damage is imba;)

Expert Shield reduces damage by 30 %

And a small imho about the swamp. (since over the years I've started to understand it a bit)
In Heroes III there are, I would say, "unfair aspects of army recruitment"
-necromancy
-demonology
-angels from cans
-geese from trees

meaning these aren't bought but obtained in battles.
The swamp has an advantage over others in using the 4th aspect. This is the ability to grade geese + their quantity is higher. That's one.

Second. The swamp, like no other, can easily take any tree and any tree guard on 1-2-1. Meaning the game scheme is simplified.

Build up max on the 1st [week] and find trees. The main thing is that they exist; taking them is no longer a problem. And so by the beginning of the second, we already have 2-3 hydras and 20 geese.

We go to treasury and take almost everything needed. If there are more trees there, the Dragon Utopia falls on the 2nd week, thanks to a powerful stack of monarch wyverns.

Accelerated scouts on flies help stretch chains much further.

In defense of lizards :)
Everyone considers them weak for a simple banal reason - because they are used without shooting and mostly ungraded. :) that's the whole secret.

Try playing as Vistan with graded lizards on 1-1-1 and I think many will change their opinion. (in TE, for example, he is actually started on maps more often than Tazara, because three stacks of lizards are guaranteed and that is great breakthrough power)
РП (Реальное папство!)
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