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ValgallaWolf, this is far from being the most versatile tactic. Firstly, you won't be able to use it against single-unit creatures (executioners, commanders, air elementals, etc.), and secondly, you won't be able to use it against powerful, fast-attacking ranged units (blue archers, druids, assassins, etc.), not to mention casters (priests, mages, liches, etc.). In other words, you have nothing to replenish your losses with.
Moreover, in the replays, I see that the archers are constantly attacking with "Lac" and dealing only about 750 damage. A cleaner battlefield, fewer "Lac" spells, and a few more dragons, and that's it.
At the same time, the regeneration method works against absolutely everyone, except perhaps a large number of water creatures or titans.
P.S. Yes, you can't defeat Jarls with archers either. 4 storm bolts to the face at the start, and there are no more archers.
If we're talking about strategy, then one hero (the first) goes with blue flies and archers on a "dwarves" map (dwarves bind, defend, cover the archers and flies, and towards the end of the battle, the flies take out the dwarves, thereby minimizing losses), and the second hero levels up by fighting with regeneration.
ValgallaWolf, this is far from being a universal tactic. Firstly, you won't be able to use this method against single-unit creatures (executioners, commanders, air elementals, etc.), and secondly, you won't be able to use it against powerful, fast-moving ranged units (blue archers, druids, assassins, etc.), and of course, against casters (priests, mages, liches, etc.). In other words, you have nothing to replenish your losses with.
Moreover, in the replays, I see that the archers are constantly attacking with "Vorpal Strike" and dealing only about 750 damage. A cleaner battlefield, fewer "Vorpal Strikes," and a few more dragons, and that's it.
Meanwhile, the regeneration method works against absolutely everyone, except perhaps a large number of water creatures or titans.
P.S. Yes, you can't defeat Jarls with archers either. 4 storm bolts to the face at the start, and there are no more archers.
If we're talking about strategy, then one hero (the first) goes with wood elementals, blue flies, and archers (the wood elementals bind, defend, cover the archers and flies, and towards the end of the battle, the flies heal the wood elementals, thereby minimizing losses), and the second hero levels up in battles using regeneration.
Sorry... I forgot to mention... About the casters... I'll send it now with casters... It's also done easily... Only the sprites fly forward. 6 packs of 2 sprites each, and that's fine. By the way, I think you saw that the hero has "Ruthless Arrows." It's not my fault that the priests cast "Evasion" in the replay. I think this is a bug, and they always cast it against archers.
P.S. Thank you for adding a new perspective to the discussion; this is truly a discussion with evidence.
My apologies... I forgot to mention... Regarding the casters... I'll send you a replay with casters now... It's all done easily... Only the fairies fly forward. 6 stacks of 2 fairies each, and it's fine. By the way, I think you noticed that the hero has Ruthless Arrows. It's not my fault that the priests cast Dodge after the replay. I think it's a bug, and they always cast it against archers.
I watched the replay with the Druids. It's all great. But let's stick to not using Findan, because he's a hero from the Campaigns. And secondly, the initiative of the archers was miraculously raised to 13 ;) Besides, one stack of archers still took you down. Two or three squads of druids on the map, and you're worn out. And if we consider the standard conditions (a hero from the Generic set, not Companies), the standard initiative of the archers, then the losses would be many times greater. It's better not to attack such powerful casters with weak troops. You can defeat the Druids by having a Ring of Protection from Lightning (which you can often find) and decent resistance, for example, take a couple of old, seasoned rogues with you, then the risk is not so great, and even then only if absolutely necessary (passage, important artifact).
Besides, I noticed that the archers are already at level 80. And that's at least the third week (if with an external dwelling - a dwelling) or the fourth if without. That is, you can have an expert-level light mage with resurrection and freely defeat them with dragons.
P.S. Thank you for bringing a new perspective to the discussion; this is truly a discussion with evidence.
To be honest, I didn't understand the point of leveling up Ilfina as the main character on the 4th week. It really got to me. Stop with this nonsense, because even in the Netherlands, it would be banned.
Moderated: OFF-TOPIC in the message
2 TonyMontana.
I didn't mean to offend you personally, I just can't stand nonsense, sorry. If you think you were right, then provide arguments and documents besides paws and a tail.
2 oxygen_hl
I personally trained with an Elf to break through the Castle. I broke through 500 in one go. And what? BDP, regeneration, and double Dryads handle it perfectly. And Letos was killing 676 Phoenixes on the 3rd week. Replays are not an indicator.
Moderated: OFF-TOPIC in the message
Tony, sorry just in case for being so harsh. I don't mean to offend you - I don't have that in mind. It's just that from your posts, it seems like you're already expecting me to be looking for a catch. No. I'll tell anyone that they are wrong if I think so.
To be honest, I didn't understand the point of leveling up Ilfina as a main hero on the 4th week. It really threw me off. Stop using this stuff, because even in the Netherlands, it would be banned.
This so-called "stuff" is actively used by players in tournaments. For example, Ossir starts, clears the area, and on the fourth week, Ilfina or Wing emerges from the castle, and by the end of the fifth week, they catch up and surpass Ossir in level. Or, in the Tournament Edition, they level up Talanar into a powerful triple ballista, and Wing or Ilfina are used as backups. Mdance;164808
2 oxygen_hl
I personally trained specifically with an Elf to break through Castle Defense. I managed 500 in one go. And so what? Ballista Defense, regeneration, and pairs of Dryads handle it perfectly. And Letos killed 676 Phoenixes on the 3rd week. Replays aren't indicative.
Of course, they aren't. But what is indicative? The top rankings in tournaments? Or am I posting replays without accompanying them with text? What specifically do you disagree with? I posted replays of a real situation in a tournament game. The timeframe is the fifth week.
Regarding the five hundred Castle Defense, I honestly didn't understand the purpose. Was it just a Russian "look how good I am" thing, or what? I don't object, moreover, I'm actually demonstrating it. We were talking about Initiative and Castle Defense, and I tried to illustrate the influence of initiative on the game situation. What's wrong with that?
Vayshan
18 years ago
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You definitely won't be able to control the dragon's ability, as whether it works or not depends on chance, strangely enough. As for the cooldown – your dragon arrived and attacked. And does that mean the entire stack of cooldown units goes to heaven? No, on their next turn, these cooldown units will use their ability, and if they also have the "Wrath" ability, that's triple damage, so...
To be honest, I didn't understand the point of mentioning five hundred Combat Points. Was it just a way to show off, like a typical Russian thing? I don't really mind, and in fact, that's what I was trying to demonstrate. We were talking about Initiative and Combat Points, and I tried to illustrate how Initiative affects the game situation. What's wrong with that?
I'm just saying that I also like to post replays as proof – it's like saying, "look how good I am," and you're right, it's a bit like that. But replays are one thing, and the actual game situation is completely different. And Combat Points aren't a valid argument against a well-developed Elf. In general, neutral creatures aren't a valid argument. And I didn't downvote you, so there shouldn't be any questions about "what's wrong," right?
ValgallaWolf
18 years ago
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How can neutrals not be considered an argument? The entire game revolves around them. And only the final battle (excluding hit-and-run tactics and various buyout options) involves fighting another hero. And how well you prepare for this battle depends precisely on the neutrals!
I'm just saying that I personally like to post replays as proof – like, "look, this is a purely Russian strategy, see how well I play," and yes, you're right. Replays are one thing, but the real situation is completely different. And Chaos Dungeon isn't an argument against a well-developed Elf. In general, neutral creatures aren't an argument. And I didn't actually give you a negative rating, so there shouldn't be any questions about "something being wrong," right?
Mdance, I'm not willing to consider the database system as an evaluation of a post because it's full of speculation. Words are, after all, closer to the truth. :) As for neutral creatures, they are a very large part of the game. What can you say, but it turns out that heroes are 90% of the game, with neutral creatures and experiments on your own mind, and only 10% with an opponent (everyone can put in their own numbers). I gave a combat situation from the game. A real one, not fabricated.
Further on the topic. Neutral creatures are always an argument. Some people grab the maximum Utopia on the third week, some break through to the treasury on the fourth week with a monster of strength 45 – these are all quite weighty arguments. From the topic, it seemed to me that not everyone realizes that there are advantages in the Emerald Mines besides the attack range, whether it's five squares or two – it doesn't matter. So, I tried to share some strategic insights. Sorry if it's not interesting.
By the way, regarding neutral creatures, maybe taking the maximum Sunken Temple isn't an argument either? ;)
Snowball
18 years ago
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2Oxy The video is certainly interesting, but it has its own nuances. He got lucky with the terrain of the battle map; one stack of Crystal Archers couldn't attack. If there were two stacks of 30 or the map was cleaner, this trick wouldn't have worked. IMHO If the video featured Crystal Archers instead of Emerald Archers, it would have been more impressive.
2Oxy The video is certainly interesting, but it has its own nuances. The map's terrain was favorable, and a single stack of Black Dragons couldn't attack. If there were two stacks of 30 or the map was clearer, this trick wouldn't have worked. IMHO If the video featured Crystal Dragons instead of Emerald Dragons, it would have been more impressive.
Hmm, no, that won't work. Let's go through it step by step. If the neutrals are afraid of us, they form fewer stacks; if they aren't, they form four. So, the stone on the field compensates for the fact that they condensed into three stacks. If they had formed four stacks, as they usually do, they would have attacked with three stacks of 16 Draconians each, which equals 48. As it is, I was attacked by two stacks of 21-22, which is basically equivalent. Moreover, you can trick them by moving around the field so that they do form in a more compact way and can only attack in pairs.
Snowball
18 years ago
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Well, if you just run around the battlefield, you won't regenerate that quickly. In principle, I don't mind it, as I play as Sylvan myself. Our dragons are the most dragon-like dragons in the game.
oxygen_hl
18 years ago
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You always have time to move somewhere on the first turn. Also, keep in mind that everything is in a vacuum for me. You can take flies, you can block with a crystal, you can apply Stone Skin. In general, there are so many options that problems rarely arise. In reality, it all comes down to stats. If defense or knowledge doesn't level up well (yes, I understand that these skills are primary and develop well, but there have been cases with different elves, like 3-16-3-5. You won't get far with only 50 mana), then you have to adapt to the circumstances. This is rare, but it does happen.
P.S. Just for fun, I started ten battles against such packs of Conflux Demons under the described conditions. They are so incredibly stupid, like logs, I swear! On a flat field, they managed to position themselves in such a way that only two of them could attack, in 9 out of 10 cases, without any setup. :D But seriously, the Emerald Dragon always goes first because it has 14 speed against their 10, and therefore it can position itself opposite the very last stack of Conflux Demons. And its faster companions will immediately block the path for it. In this case, only one of them will reach the target on the first turn, and on the second turn, they will be completely out of position
I said that Prismatic Breath is unpredictable. Even if you have a Luck of 10, there is always a chance that it won't work...
I understand where the misunderstanding lies :) I didn't think I needed to explain how the ability actually works :)
Quote from the manual: Prismatic Breath This creature attacks all targets within a random radius in a given direction. “Prismatic Breath” hits from 1 to 5 cells in a random direction behind the target. The number of cells hit depends on the creature's luck: 1+(random(1;10)+Luck)/2, with rounding down and no more than five.
Do you see the formula? Let's assume that the worst-case scenario happened and random(1;10) turned out to be 1. Let's say we want to get a result of at least 5 cells. 1+(1+luck)/2 = 5 From this, we get: luck = 7. That is, if our dragons have a luck of 7 or more, then their attack will, in any case, be 100% for 5 cells. Only the direction of the attack remains random.
Now regarding the direction: From the manual, we take the diagram of possible attack directions and see that the attack cannot go straight for more than three cells. It will definitely turn left or right. The next piece of the puzzle :) The initiative of the dragons will allow them to go first, and their speed will allow them to fly directly to the enemy. Next... The enemy will place stacks tightly, in a line, as they use different troops. Conclusion: if you have 7 luck or more, then when attacking with Prismatic Breath perpendicular to the line of enemy troops, the Prismatic Breath will almost certainly hit several stacks. The attack will be for 5 cells in this case.
As for the usefulness of Prismatic Breath compared to the Warlock's dragons and their relative survivability.
Warlock's dragons - for the Warlock, Prismatic Breath - for the Wood Elf. Therefore, Prismatic Breath will have much higher defense, and it is very likely that there will be a defense skill for the hero. The Warlock's dragons will have less defense, and the hero will most likely not have a defense skill. That is, Prismatic Breath will be much more durable.
Furthermore: Prismatic Breath will attack first, deal huge damage, and take the brunt of the retaliation, which will save weaker units. Prismatic Breath will attract a lot of attention, as it is a very strong attack stack, which will provide cover for the Dryads, Dancers, and Archers, who are all very strong attack stacks, but at the same time very easily killed. Prismatic Breath, due to its ability, is a more dangerous attack stack than Imps.
This is not observed in the case of the Warlock and dragons. Here, the main striking force is the Warlock hero himself. Among the units, the Warlock has only one attack stack with low survivability, similar to the Elf - these are the Furies. There is almost nothing to cover them with, as with the Elf. And the dragon itself will not attract as much attention; it attacks quite rarely. Red dragons can only use their ability usefully with an attack teleport, which will cost the hero a turn. And it is not as durable under the Warlock as the dragons are for the Elf.
Let's continue on this topic. Neutrals are always a valid argument. Some players grab the maximum number of Utopia artifacts in the third week, while others break through to the Treasury on the fourth week using a monster with a power of 45 – these are all quite significant arguments. From the discussion, it seemed to me that not everyone realizes that there are advantages to Emerald Mines beyond just the attack range, whether it's five or two tiles – it doesn't matter. So, I simply tried to share some strategic insights. Sorry if it's not interesting.
No, it's interesting. I just meant that clearing neutrals is one thing, but facing an opponent's main hero, for which our hero should be "optimized," is a completely different matter. Orson, for example, can take Utopia artifacts in the 1st or 2nd week with 4 Vampires, so what? I've also seen how Nura defeats 30+ Cyclops with a couple of Goblins... That's why I say that a replay of a battle with neutrals doesn't necessarily indicate that the hero will be stronger than the enemy.
Now, regarding the strategy of leveling up two heroes – doesn't it bother you that some Warlock or Orc might show up just when the first hero has stopped actively leveling up, and the second hasn't yet gained enough power? And they will be much stronger because they spent all their experience on themselves, rather than splitting it between two. And since our army is also divided in half according to your method – one has dragons, and the other has everything else – you might end up struggling to recruit enough units because you won't have enough money...
And, by the way, regarding resistance against spellcasters – they "know" when a spell will be deflected and simply attack. Only Pitys and Water Elementals can't attack, so they still cast spells. But if there's an opportunity to attack, they will.
