Rules for offline tournaments for Heroes of Might and Magic IV. — Offline tournaments.

IronAxe

18 years ago

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Brackman;144080

Brilliant idea. Take your hero to the middle of nowhere — let the host search for it!)) You might as well bury it in the ground and draw a map — like, find the tree with the scary face, move the screen left by 12 cm, then down by 3, center it, close your eyes, wildly wave the mouse while chanting shamanic incantations, and — voilà! — your mouse is on my dead hero!:D

:) Well, let's also forbid fleeing with a hero from battle. Because fleeing is basically the same as Town Portal :) And if you don't have that magic, then don't flee from battle — replay it until you're exhausted :) As for pulling out the tombstone — we've been through that already. Why did the developers make the tombstone? Why did they allow units to pick it up, put it in their pocket, and carry it? And what if I die not under monsters? Suppose I attack some pyramid, get crushed there, and they toss the tombstone out. In that case, a unit can calmly walk up to it and pick it up (this is provided for by the game developers). So why exactly can't you pull a tombstone out from under monsters, if such a possibility exists in principle? Then first suggest that the developers redo the game :) so that there would be no tombstone at all, like in Heroes 3 for example :)
Next, your argument boils down to the fact that an offline player has no reason to lose a battle with a hero and turn him into a tombstone — like, the player can always replay the fight or not attack there at all if the battle can't be won. But the tombstone nevertheless exists in the game. Continuing to think logically along with you, we come to the conclusion that an online player simply needs the trick of pulling a tombstone from under monsters. When he attacks, he can't guarantee the outcome of the battle 100% unless he's trained harder than everyone else like Bruce Lee :) And if he accidentally loses, he has no chance to replay. Like, on that optimistic note, he might as well concede the game if he loses his main hero. Or, quickly pull the tombstone out from under the monsters with a unit and continue fighting. And that option is more normal from a gameplay perspective. So here's a question for you. Why, in the same game Heroes 4, should online and offline players be given different rights to save a fallen hero? :)
A large number of prohibitions on normal gameplay moments turns a good game into a bad one :)

SandroXXL

18 years ago

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I also think that the "Tomb" ability should be allowed. From my limited offline experience, it's a useful ability. I've also encountered situations where, after an early battle, a message appeared saying "Everyone died!", due to some mine, and although I'm a beginner, I don't think the "Tomb" ability should be removed. If the "Tomb" ability contradicts the author's intention, it can always be prohibited by a separate rule in the tournament regulations. Furthermore, it's easier for the organizer – it's difficult to detect violations related to the "Tomb" ability. As for the rest, tournaments have already been held and were quite successful, so the rules are fine.

General ZeT

18 years ago

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I was thinking about it, and I realized that the organizer of an offline tournament shouldn't participate in their own tournament, even if the map isn't their creation. This is because they receive save files from other tournament participants, and the organizer will see the saves of others and will play with the incentive to be ahead of the participant who sent the save file.

In reply to General ZeT

Catch

18 years ago

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General ZeT;160029

I was thinking about it and realized that the organizer of an offline tournament shouldn't participate in their own tournament, even if the map isn't their creation. Because they receive save files from other tournament participants, and the organizer sees the save files of others and will play with the motivation to be ahead of the participant who sent the save file.

So, there won't be any organizers left at all :D

But seriously, personally, I don't look at save files until I've played myself, but again, only I know about this... The main thing here is the question of trust in the host.

In reply to Catch

LeSHiJ-MaX

18 years ago

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Catch;160058

So, there won't be any organizers left at all :D

But seriously, personally, I don't watch saves until I've played the map myself, but again, only I know about this... The main thing here is the question of trust in the host.

I agree.
And some hosts try to complete the map in the first few days, even at their own expense, and send the save to an independent moderator so that there are no misunderstandings later.
We used to have Alan, who was a neutral moderator, and he could accept winning saves as an outside person.

General ZeT

18 years ago

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I didn't just write all this – in the inter-clan tournament, players sent me their save files. On the second day, I had a save file ready, and it was completed in 10 days, earning 1598 points. Someone else sent me a save file completed in 10 days, earning 1600 points. Then, another save file was sent, completed in 9 days. I could have quietly played again and improved my result, potentially reaching 2nd place. But I didn't do that and didn't play again. In the end, I got 3rd place. That's how I acted, but what about the organizer? I'm not referring to the organizer of Luchik's tournaments or the Heroes IV tournaments. I'm talking about all offline tournaments for all parts of the game.

Lu41k

18 years ago

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Zet, if we think about it that way, the organizers will be very sad. For example, I love Heroes 4 and I organize both offline and online tournaments. It turns out that my fate is only to organize, but I also want to participate and play. It's not entirely fair!
I agree with Catch. I also don't look at saves until I send my own! And the organizers try to complete their tournament as soon as possible and send the save, for example, to the coordinator (they used to send it to Alan...). And again, the question of trust in the organizers arises! If you don't trust him, then what can you even talk about?
So, my opinion is: organizers should not be deprived of the right to participate! Otherwise, the point: any registered user can participate in the tournament will look at least strange! :) The main thing is to trust the organizer :)

General ZeT

18 years ago

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It's up to you, I just shared my opinion about the rules.

In reply to General ZeT

VDV_forever

18 years ago

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General ZeT;160029

I was thinking about it and realized that the organizer of an offline tournament should not participate in their own tournament, even if the map is not their creation. Because other participants send him save files, and the organizer sees the saves of others and will play with the incentive to be ahead of the participant who sent the save.

The organizer has an unwritten rule:

Not to look at the saves of players who sent saves before completing the map themselves; I completely agree with Catch on this.

And yet, sometimes suspicions of this kind arise among potential players. So, to dispel any doubts about the fairness of tournament organizers, I created a special thread called "Tournament Organizer Saves," which is located in the administrator section. As a rule, organizers password-protect the saves and post them in this thread in the first days of the tournament (at least, that's what I do!).

I also agree with Luchik, who is always right!
Organizers are also people, and they also want to relax and compete with the participants! And not just prepare the map, accept applications from tournament participants, answer questions, and check saves; this also takes a lot of time.

I can say from my own experience that even if I take one of the prize-winning places, I ALWAYS make a very detailed description + saves, which allow you to repeat all my steps.

Sincerely, VDV_forever

In reply to VDV_forever

Undergrounder

18 years ago

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There are some very reasonable rules on the League; I recommend reading them. :)
n. It is forbidden to use the bug that increases the number of turns on the map.
n. It is forbidden to use the bug that causes movement penalties on rough terrain to disappear.
n. It is forbidden to use the bug that gives heroes and units stealth, which they do not normally have.

In reply to SandroXXL

Dr Motor

17 years ago

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SandroXXL;144607

I also think that the Necropolis should be allowed. From the little offline experience I have, the Necropolis is a useful feature. I've also had situations where, after an early battle, a message appeared saying "Everyone died!", because of some mine, and although I'm a beginner, the Necropolis shouldn't be removed. If the Necropolis contradicts the author's idea, it can always be banned as a separate item in the rules of that tournament. Besides, it's easier for the organizer - it's difficult to detect a Necropolis violation. And in general, tournaments have already been held and were quite successful, so the rules are fine.

Here they are talking about pulling the Necropolis out from under monsters - I've seen it a lot of times, and it seems to be allowed. I apologize for my ignorance, but could you tell me what this trick is? Maybe you could provide a link where I can read about it; there must be something about it.

In reply to Dr Motor

Undergrounder

17 years ago

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Dr Motor;194304

Here, they talk about extracting a tomb from under the monsters [...] tell me – what kind of trick is that?

Oh, I'm not very good at explaining.
1. Move a unit onto the tomb, and you'll enter the army dialogue (two rows of slots).
2. Press the spacebar, the unit jumps to the top row, and the tomb goes to the bottom. The spacebar is only needed for this; otherwise, you won't be able to move the unit up.
3. Move the tomb to the top with the mouse, and exit the dialogue. The monsters won't attack; now, the unit and the tomb are together.
4. The unit itself won't be able to move away; you need to click on it with another unit and take the whole group. Or not the whole group, depending on the situation.
-- done. The tomb has been extracted, the task has been completed, let's run to the revival chamber before the corpse starts to stink.

*In step 3, you can change things – don't move the tomb to the top. Then, you can easily extract it from under the first unit with a second unit. However, the first unit will remain stuck and unable to move. But sometimes, that's what you need.

**If you complete step 3, sometimes you can do it without a second unit – enter the dialogue again with the combined army of unit + tomb, and move everyone down. Exit the dialogue. The army will move to the right-up, if there is no obstacle there, or otherwise – to the nearest free direction clockwise from right-up. This method can be used if that direction is suitable.

_________
Off-topic in response to the signature: Don't mess with my head. Give him metal. At the end of this month, an old man is expected to arrive, who played punk when the word didn't even exist...

In reply to Undergrounder

Dr Motor

17 years ago

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Undergrounder;194355

Oh, I'm not very good at explaining things.

Thanks!

In reply to Dr Motor

Dr Motor

17 years ago

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DON'T HIT TOO HARD!

Here's a question: is it possible to block save/load during a battle in any way? Perhaps with a program, or can it be prohibited in the map or save file? After all, it wasn't in the base version.

And here's a suggestion: IMHO, if you prohibit save/load during a battle, offline mode will be much more interesting and less tedious. As it is, only those who are willing to, for example, repeatedly fight Minotaurs to get a specific item, or something else, win in these battles. That's a perversion!
Of course, I'm not saying that strong offline players are only distinguished by this; turn management and other things are also important. But still, offline mode would become more interesting.

Save/load in battle is only needed online, IMHO, and even then, only in case of a force majeure.

General ZeT

17 years ago

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Here's a question: is there any way to prevent save/load during a battle? Like, is there a program or can you restrict it in the map or save file? Because it wasn't in the base version.

That's a good idea. Regarding preventing save/load in a map, I've thought about it, and... so far, I haven't found a way to do it using a script. We'll keep looking.

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