Orcs – discussion about the race. — Stronghold

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Registered: 11/4/2007 4:41 AM UTC

Posts: 359

12/16/2007 10:21 AM UTC

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Who was he playing as? Sinister? I haven't played against a human player, but I easily won against the AI as Haggeesh, playing as Sinister.

Shak Karrukat, that's what I meant!

It's not even worth playing against the AI! You'll win 90% of the time (if you know how to play)! For example, I always beat any opponent (playing as the Stronghold). Playing against a real person is unpredictable.

I don't know why, but when I practiced against the AI and then started playing against people online, I lost to everyone.

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Registered: 11/8/2007 3:57 PM UTC

Posts: 1,820

12/16/2007 11:07 AM UTC

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Regarding the AI's gameplay, it behaves quite intelligently when controlling a hero. It NEVER exposes troops to attacks prematurely, casts the most effective spells from its spellbook when mana allows, doesn't shy away from area-of-effect spells, and tries to target the maximum number of the most dangerous units. The priority of attacking units is as follows (in descending order): casters/archers, flying creatures/melee units. Of course, this is a very rough approximation, but it chooses its targets correctly. It's a quite decent opponent. But the question is, what difficulty level were you playing on in that map? If it was below Veteran, then you don't even need to worry; you could definitely defeat that AI.

By the way, what difficulty level does Shadar play against the AI on? If it's not on Hero level, like the Ghost, then it's clear that Shadar needs more practice...

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Registered: 10/31/2007 6:48 PM UTC

Posts: 797

12/16/2007 3:41 PM UTC

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Well, the veteran difficulty level isn't that different from the hero difficulty. I don't remember exactly how the order of creature destruction changes, but everything else remains the same – area-of-effect spells, etc.

Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...

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Registered: 11/26/2007 5:36 AM UTC

Posts: 89

12/16/2007 3:48 PM UTC

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What's bad about this hero is that the AI often flees very quickly (if its army is smaller) instead of trying to inflict some damage. It just gives up and that's it.

Готай:"Они убили Хенги! Сволочи!":D
PC Only and Forever

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Registered: 11/26/2007 7:55 AM UTC

Posts: 671

12/16/2007 6:52 PM UTC

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I only play with a computer-controlled hero, just like Shadar! But he doesn't pose any danger to me anymore, although I won't deny that he plays quite skillfully. That's why Shadar and I try to play against each other.

Added after 1 hour
Please write some interesting thoughts that might help me in a game against Sylvanas... (on a very large map).

:smile02:Клан "Lost Heroes" - Заместитель лидера:smile02:

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Registered: 1/31/2007 8:28 PM UTC

Posts: 585

12/16/2007 8:23 PM UTC

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Maybe I'm wrong, but orcs don't seem like a very serious faction to me. In order for their special ability to compensate for the lack of proper magic, it needs to be leveled up a LOT, otherwise you can't expect anything worthwhile. Any Warlock will beat you so badly that you won't be happy. The units are full of various abilities, but they are not serious in themselves. This is just my opinion. P.S. But I really like the nomadic centaurs. They are simply a dream, not just archers. You can't block them!

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Registered: 6/10/2007 1:54 PM UTC

Posts: 403

12/16/2007 8:44 PM UTC

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Yes, Orcs are strong... just like all the races. You can't say that Orcs are overpowered! And there is a way to counter them. By the way... I think the hit-and-run strategy is quite suitable for that statement... although I haven't tried it yet, but in my opinion, the theory is good.

I defeated Shaka-Karokat playing as Sinithar, and at most, I had 2 Hydras left. My strategy against him: Meteorite once, and then I bombarded with Fireball. Of course, a lot depends on the magic luck, and plus you need to control the rage of the Orcs (it's good that Wyverns don't have rage).

Added after 10 minutes
Sorry for the naivety, Holy Paladin, but have you played as Dungeon against Stronghold in the late or ultimate game, at least against the AI? If so, please write what happened. And if not, you can suggest something.

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Registered: 10/31/2007 6:48 PM UTC

Posts: 797

12/17/2007 3:44 AM UTC

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Orcs are a very serious race, and Dungeon is the most challenging faction to play against when facing them. This has been confirmed repeatedly, although ways to cope with them can be found. Try playing against Orcs, at least on Veteran difficulty, preferably on a large map.

Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...

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Registered: 11/26/2007 7:55 AM UTC

Posts: 671

12/17/2007 1:39 PM UTC

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It's difficult for everyone to play against them (in a long game).

:smile02:Клан "Lost Heroes" - Заместитель лидера:smile02:

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Registered: 10/31/2007 6:48 PM UTC

Posts: 797

12/17/2007 4:11 PM UTC

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I think it's still somewhat manageable to play as Humans, Necromancers, Sylvan, and Fortress. They have high defense, Humans have training, and Fortress have runes... But Dark Elves don't excel in either defense or troop numbers; they only have a hero with Chaos magic and some cool units on their own. However, this doesn't save them in close combat, so it's problematic to play as them.

Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...

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Registered: 11/8/2007 3:57 PM UTC

Posts: 1,820

12/17/2007 4:48 PM UTC

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2 Holy Paladin First of all, I would like to ask what you mean by the phrase "not a serious race"? In my opinion, it is a very serious and, moreover, a unique race, since it is the only race without magic. Perhaps you just don't like the fact that this race is purely might, without any hints of magic? Of course, Orcs have some disadvantages due to the lack of magic, but they also have advantages (anti-magic, for example). And the fact that a Warlock will beat them is not true...) Balance won't allow it!) Play, experiment, and I think you will understand the charm of Orcs. Good luck! ;)

2 Shadar So, how are things going with saving the game?;) Let's agree that if you decide to upload them, you'll contact me on ICQ so as not to clutter up the topic here, okay?

2 Ghost Agree, it's always difficult to play against an equal opponent, no matter what race he controls.

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Registered: 6/10/2007 1:54 PM UTC

Posts: 403

12/17/2007 7:20 PM UTC

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Yes, Major Whirlwind, you are right about

I agree, it's always difficult to play against an equal opponent, no matter what race they control.

Regarding the save, OK, but we also need to upload the map since we were playing on a random map generator.

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Registered: 11/26/2007 7:55 AM UTC

Posts: 671

12/18/2007 5:11 PM UTC

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Well, that’s obvious, but a very skilled player was playing against me as Dungeon, but it didn’t help him anyway...

:smile02:Клан "Lost Heroes" - Заместитель лидера:smile02:

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Registered: 11/8/2007 3:57 PM UTC

Posts: 1,820

12/18/2007 5:20 PM UTC

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Shadar and Ghost
In general, I suggest you proceed as follows:
1. Play under the same conditions (map size, difficulty, races, etc.). Let Shadar analyze his mistakes. If he wins or almost wins (if the winner has very few troops left, then IMHO this is an error within the range of randomness, such as different artifacts appearing, if they appear at all, starting resources, mine guards, and other neutrals, etc.), then I think the issue is resolved. If he loses again, then we move on to point 2)))
2. Try switching races. What will the results be? Just for fun...

In reply to Майор Вихрь

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Registered: 1/31/2007 8:28 PM UTC

Posts: 585

12/18/2007 6:01 PM UTC

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Major Whirlwind;136750

2 Holy Paladin
First of all, I would like to ask what you mean by the phrase "not a serious race"? In my opinion, it is a very serious and, moreover, a unique race, since it is the only race without magic. Perhaps you just don't like the fact that this race is purely might-based, without any hint of magic? Of course, Orcs have some disadvantages due to the lack of magic, but they also have advantages (anti-magic, for example). And the fact that a Necromancer will defeat them is not true...) Balance won't allow it!) Play, experiment, and I think you will understand the charm of Orcs. Good luck! ;)

Well, it's not very difficult to defeat Orcs with the League in the following cases:

1) If the Orc hero hasn't taken Chaos and Summoning magic resistance ;) it will be tough.

2) Well, teleporting Hydras to archers is well-known, so only Centaurs - Nomads can save them (as far as I remember, they cannot be blocked?).

3) If the Necromancer doesn't forget about the corpses of his warriors (Paoka are not asleep:D)

4) Damn, let's at least compare units)))
Yes, I understand, it's a cliché example because everyone knows that there is nothing better than Assassins and Rangers at the first level, but still... HOW can this beauty be compared to cowardly Goblins?)

That's it. I could give more arguments, but I don't want to)
Anyway, in the end, everything depends on the players, not on the races.

Major Whirlwind;136750