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The Fall from Grace Auto-translated

3.7 (3 ratings)

Map details

Category
Map
Map type
Scenario
Map size
M (Medium — 136×136) from the map file
Author
Rommy
Full map details Players, teams, victory conditions and every player slot — read from the map file.
In reply to Magnificent
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#16
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Magnificent
I watched the replay, yes, it's a victory; I understand where my mistake was and how to play correctly. Now I think that against Elaiya there was most likely a tactic as well, in order to win quickly and without luck. The balance is correct and you have proven this. But from the players' comments, it is already clear that for most, this map will be a test of tactics: "how many battles can you win".

In ordinary scenarios, authors can make invincible enemies (for the moment they appear), but the player has the opportunity to come up with something on the strategic map: distract the enemy hero to better prepare for battle, force them to attack the Castle or defeat them over several attacks. MasteR's maps, for example, are balanced specifically for such gameplay. But here, all battles must be won immediately, "as is," and that makes the scenario very difficult.

To sum up, the scenario is unusual and interesting in that it forces you to think about tactics in difficult battles; there are also many videos. And even having lost, I can say...
Thank you very much for the map!

This surprises me. I completed the "The Veil Falls" scenario on Hero the first time; I described the Walkthrough in detail in the map's thread. I remember there was bad random in the guilds, resurrection at the end of the game, and no vampirism at all. But even then, I never considered this map very difficult; I have won scenarios on Hero that are much harder.
Thanks again for rating the map! Thank you for your persistence in not dropping the map immediately.
I'll try "The Veil" some more, but the start is difficult as far as I'm concerned.
I didn't quite understand—did you actually defeat Zehir? Because
spoilerthis is not the last battle.....
In reply to Rommy
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#17
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Rommy
I didn't quite understand, did you actually beat Zephyr?
I decided not to go any further; by my rules, if I ask for a hint on how to win a battle, the game is over. But it was interesting to see the solution.
#18
Auto-translated

Registered on the forum just to leave a review, because the scenario doesn't have many positive ones. I liked the map; it's clear a lot of effort was put into it. At first, I didn't think I'd finish it entirely (from the comments I learned it's very difficult), I was just curious how far I'd get.
The toughest battles were against Wulfstan (after which I realized how useful the AI's favorite spell is here...) and Kujin (it's hard to even describe how I got through that).
My most useful actions, thanks to which I was able to complete the scenario, were:

Spoiler

Deflect Missile / General Deflect Missile, thanks to which only my shooters weren't hit, and not deploying peasants in the battles against Ilaya and Zehir — without that, the enemies would wipe me out before my turn even started.

About the final boss

I was also intrigued by who the final boss would be (I read the spoiler), and kept guessing who it might be. I bet on the real Isabel — she also participated in the canon battle for the Claw, even if only in a cutscene, and she was bound to show up. So I was in for a letdown.)

Good luck with your future projects

In reply to IVI4
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#19
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IVI4

Registered on the forum just to leave a review, because the scenario has too few positive ones. I liked the map, you can see a lot of effort was put into it. At first I didn't think I'd finish it entirely (from the comments I learned it's very hard), I was just curious how far I'd get.
The hardest fights were against Wulfstan (after which I realized how useful the AI's favorite spell is here...) and Kujin (it's hard to even describe how I got through that one).
My most useful actions, thanks to which I managed to complete the scenario, were:

Spoiler

Deflect Missile / mass Deflect Missile, thanks to which only my shooters weren't hit, and not fielding peasants in the fights against Ilaya and Zehir — without that the enemies would wipe me out before my turn even started

About the final boss

I was also intrigued by who the final boss would be (I read the spoiler), and kept guessing who it might be. I bet on the real Isabel — she did take part in the battle for the Claw according to canon, even if only in a cutscene, and she was bound to show up. So I was in for a disappointment)

Good luck with your future projects

Finally, the first documented walkthrough of the map! Thanks for a proper review, everything is factual and without whining about supposedly inflated difficulty. I've played through it many times myself without using the Deflect Missile bug, only using mass Deflect Missile. I wanted to add Isabel, but it's unclear where to put her — all her allies are defeated, and there's no Freyda. According to the original story, she wouldn't have accomplished anything without her allies and Freyda; she'd have stayed rotting in the dungeon, or her feeble attempts at rebellion (and that's without her soul or sound mind) would have been crushed by the Crimson forces.

In reply to Rommy
#20
Auto-translated
Rommy
IVI4

I registered on the forum just to leave a review, because the scenario has too few positive ones. I liked the map — you can tell a lot of effort went into it. At first I didn't think I'd finish it all the way through (I learned from the comments that it's very hard), I was just curious how far I'd get.
The hardest fights were against Wulfstan (after which I realized just how useful the AI's favorite spell is here...) and Kujin (it's hard to even describe how I got through that one).
The most useful things I did, which allowed me to beat the scenario, were:

Spoiler

Deflect Missile / mass Deflect Missile, thanks to which only my shooters weren't being hit, and not deploying peasants in the fights against Ilaya and Zehir — without that, the enemies would wipe me out before my turn even came

About the final boss

I was also intrigued by who the final boss would be (I read the spoiler), and kept guessing who it might be. I bet on the real Isabel — she did take part in the battle for the Claw canonically, even if only in a cutscene, and she was bound to show up. So I was in for a disappointment)

Good luck with your future projects

Finally, the first documented playthrough of the map! Thanks for a proper review — all facts, no whining about supposedly inflated difficulty. I've played through it many times myself without using the Deflect Missile bug, only using mass Deflect Missile. I wanted to add Isabel, but it's unclear where to put her — all her allies are crushed, and Freyda is gone. In the original story, she wouldn't have accomplished anything without her allies and Freyda; she'd have stayed rotting in the dungeon, or her feeble attempts at rebellion (and without her soul and sound mind, at that) would have been crushed by the Red forces.

"Documented" is a strong word. I don't have any solid proof, just screenshots of the results of the last three battles and save files, which isn't very informative (but I'll keep them just in case: https://disk.yandex.ru/d/R2wL_0NRjvCIYg).
Since we're on the subject, let me also note what I liked.
— The locations are as close as possible to those from the original campaign. Not only are map fragments recreated, but the same scripts are used as well (for example, Curse of the Netherworld over the garrison and the sunset effect before the fight with Arantir).
— Battlefield design. Some fights have interesting details in the background. This stands out especially in the battle against Wulfstan: zealots and warriors are locked in melee, shooters are attacking, masters of the spear are firing from the walls, a half-destroyed garrison stands in the middle of the battlefield, and behind it you can see those very catapults that breached it in the cutscene. Beautiful! Too bad the later battles don't have that.
— Scripts in battles. First, the computer's heroes here don't spam single-target Deflect Missile, but cast quite serious and dangerous spells (the kind they almost never use in Tribes of the East), actively use mass buffs and racial abilities. Second, on top of that, the enemy hero can cast something before the battle or cast several spells at once (for example, seven right at the start). Third, all sorts of surprises can happen during the fight itself, both bad and good: sometimes the enemy summons someone, sometimes reinforcements arrive for you. All of this adds variety compared to the usual PvE fights.
— The very concept of fights with a preset skill build, army, and spells. Paradoxically, the lack of a strategic component is exactly what added variety for me. In this concept, the map reminds me of the "Knowledge is Power" scenario. I got to try builds and creature upgrades I don't usually play with. For example, I knew it made sense for the Knight to take "Master of Fire" — to halve the enemies' defense — but I'd never try something like that in a normal game. At first I thought the skill changes were story-driven (like, turning to the dark side, so light weakens but darkness and chaos appear), but no, it's more of a gameplay convention. Many of the local builds can't even be assembled in a normal game, so the game offers a somewhat unique experience.
But, as it seemed to me, while in the first half of the scenario every battle played out differently, starting from Gotai and to the end the build didn't really change, and I no longer had to use any new tactical tricks, unfortunately.
As for how balanced the fights themselves turned out, I can't say, since I'm not much of an expert on that. Some fights seemed much harder to me than the ones that followed. But at least they're all beatable. Luck and starting initiative have a huge impact on the outcome of a battle, and that's a roulette. Slight changes in how you play through, and luck works differently. Don't deploy one of your stacks — and creatures act in a different order, and you might get a chance to have them killed on something of the enemy's before someone else kills them. Fortunately, there are autosaves (sometimes I made manual ones too, to skip cutscenes), so you can retry endlessly. But how anyone could beat these fights on the first try, I can't imagine.

In reply to IVI4
User Avatar
#21
Auto-translated
IVI4
Rommy
IVI4

I registered on the forum just to leave a review, because the scenario has too few positive ones. I liked the map — you can tell a lot of effort went into it. At first I didn't even think I'd finish it all the way through (I learned from the comments that it's very hard); I was just curious how far I'd get.
The hardest fights were against Wulfstan (after which I realized just how useful the AI's favorite spell is here...) and Kujin (it's hard to even describe how I got through that one).
The most useful things I did, which is what allowed me to beat the scenario, were:

Spoiler

Deflect Missile / mass Deflect Missile, thanks to which only my shooters weren't being hit, and not fielding peasants in the fights against Ilaya and Zehir — without that, the enemies would wipe me out before my turn even came

About the final boss

I was also intrigued by who the final boss would be (I'd read the spoiler), and I kept guessing who it might be. I bet on the real Isabel — after all, she did take part in the battle for the Claw canonically, even if only in a cutscene, and she was bound to show up. So I was in for a letdown)

Good luck with your future projects

Finally, the first documented playthrough of the map! Thanks for a proper review — everything factual and no whining about supposedly inflated difficulty. I've played through it many times myself without using the Deflect Missile bug, only using mass Deflect Missile. I wanted to add Isabel, but it wasn't clear where to put her — all her allies are defeated, and there's no Freyda. In the original story, she wouldn't have accomplished anything without her allies and Freyda; she'd have stayed rotting in the dungeon, or her feeble attempts at rebellion (and that's without her soul or proper sanity) would have been crushed by the Red forces.

"Documented" is a strong word. I don't have much in the way of proof, other than "screenshots" of the results of the last three battles and the saves, which isn't very informative (but I'll keep them just in case: https://disk.yandex.ru/d/R2wL_0NRjvCIYg).
Since we're on the subject, let me also note what I liked.
— The locations are as close as possible to those from the original campaign. Not only are fragments of the maps recreated, but the same scripts are used as well (for example, the Curse of the Netherworld over the garrison and the sunset effect before the fight with Arantir).
— The battlefield designs. Some fights have interesting details in the background. This stands out especially in the battle with Wulfstan: zealots and warriors are locked in melee, archers are attacking, masters of the spear are shooting from the walls, a half-destroyed garrison stands in the middle of the battlefield, and behind it you can see those very catapults that breached it in the cutscene. Beautiful! Too bad the later battles don't have anything like that.
— The battle scripts. First, the computer's heroes here don't spam single-target Deflect Missile; instead they cast quite serious and dangerous spells (the kind they almost never use in Tribes of the East), actively use mass buffs and racial abilities. Second, on top of that, the enemy hero can cast something before the battle or cast several spells at once (for example, seven right at the start). Third, all sorts of surprises can happen during the battle itself, both bad and good: sometimes the enemy summons something, sometimes reinforcements arrive for you. All of this adds variety compared to the usual PvE fights.
— The very concept of battles with a preset build, army, and spells. Paradoxically, the lack of a strategic component is exactly what added variety for me. In this regard, the map reminds me of the "Knowledge is Power" scenario. I got to try playing with builds and creature upgrades I normally don't use. For example, I knew it made sense for the Knight to take "Master of Fire" — to halve the enemies' defense — but in a normal game I'd never try something like that. At first I thought the build changes were justified by the story (like, you're turning to the dark side, so Light weakens but Darkness and Chaos appear), but no, it's more of a gameplay convention. Many of the local builds can't even be assembled in a normal game, so the game offers a somewhat unique experience.
But, as it seemed to me, while in the first half of the scenario every battle played out differently, starting from Gotai and up to the end the build didn't really change, and I no longer had to use any new tactical tricks, unfortunately.
As for how balanced the battles themselves turned out, I can't really say, since I'm not much of an expert on that. Some fights seemed much harder to me than the ones that followed. But at least they're all doable. The outcome of a battle is heavily influenced by luck and starting initiative, and that's a roulette. Slight changes in how you play through, and luck will work differently. Don't field some of your troops — and the creatures act in a different order, and you might get a chance to have them die on something of the enemy's before someone else kills them. Thankfully, there are autosaves (sometimes I also made regular ones to skip cutscenes), so you can retry endlessly. But how anyone could beat these fights on the first try, I can't imagine.

Now it's definitely the first documented playthrough) I agree that somewhere closer to the end the build variety runs out, but the enemy heroes have much bigger armies and stats; the proverbial machines and Chaos won't help at that stage of the game (by army standards). That's more the fault of the Knight class, since it has little build variety. I tried to give balanced skills; going through with Darkness would have been much easier, which is why it's not there. I also had the goal of making the scenario replayable and random

spoiler

I didn't expect to get my ass handed to me a couple of times by Duncan, almost completely dry, and on the very save where I'd beaten him easily (and so it was with many enemy heroes)

and I think I managed to do that) Thank you for the full review of the scenario 😎