Posts from Heading towards CIS-2020.

I suggest we consider the main version – the limited-time error. Thank you.

Only if you stream it:smile23:

I don't understand why there are so many arguments. It's obvious that the default version should match the preferences of the majority. It's also obvious that the vast majority have been playing HotA for a long time. I think that agreeing on SOD sounds more than adequate these days.

I completely agree with Mikhail's position. I don't understand where the argument comes from at all. We shouldn't look for a compromise, but rather look at the facts. Compared to last year, the quorum in SOD tournaments has decreased by more than 2 times. At the moment, HotA has almost completely replaced SOD, and by May, I think no one will even remember SOD anymore, unfortunately.

It's obvious that the default version should align with the preferences of the majority.

This year, the organizer had a different opinion: :smile31:

I don't understand why there are so many arguments.

Forum drama is a traditional and integral part of the CIS community: :smile23:

It's also obvious that the vast majority have been playing HotA for a long time.

It's not obvious that the vast majority of the CIS tournament player audience would choose between a mixed version and an exclusively HotA version – they would choose the exclusively HotA version (after all, the CIS is not a lobby). The statistics from the last tournament clearly confirm this (but at the same time, the organizing committee isn't running a kindergarten and is ready to work with whichever option the target audience chooses). Perhaps the situation has changed drastically in the last six months, and this will be clearly visible in the voting. At the same time, Hellight's vote carries the same weight as Predsa's vote, and as Dave-Han's vote.
The value of viewer votes is an openly discussed issue – how valuable are they, and are they valuable at all? From the organizer's perspective, without viewers, it won't be possible to reach the quorum needed to cover the entire cost, or the final price per person will increase significantly.

Before CIS-2019, there was an illusion of choice. Now, there are no illusions. The 75% threshold of participating players represents that vast majority. With a partial mix, a third of the games were played on Soda. Roughly estimate how many games would be played with a full mix on both versions (of course, with an adequate pool of templates). I've estimated – I get a result of around fifty-fifty.

And if all SOD templates are made without any selection, there will be 90+% more games! The system was structured so that SOD templates were chosen based on template priority, not version, at least in part.

Merlin will calm down only when Wojciech bursts in with a proposal to hold a tournament somewhere in Zakopane, specifically at Hot. And suddenly everyone will rush there, just to avoid arguing with Merlin. :smile32: p.s. HotA default. SoD by mutual agreement. That's the current situation.

Merlin will calm down only when Wojciech bursts in with a proposal to hold a tournament somewhere in Zakopane, strictly on HotA.
And suddenly everyone will rush there, just to avoid arguing with Merlin. :smile32:

I would gladly go to Poland. Regardless of the version. Even in WoG. In the near future, the Poles will still observe, and in another year, perhaps they will take it up themselves – that's when there will definitely be more people.

But to the point. The vote will not just be for a mix or HotA – but for a specific approximate mix of templates. Which, if the audience is interested, can be further adjusted to suit the composition of real, not virtual, participants.

Added 14 minutes later

p.s. HotA default. SoD by mutual agreement. That's the situation now.

Online – I don't even argue, and no one argues that this is exactly the situation.
For offline – let's see how the audience votes.

To be honest, I don't understand at all why Merlin is pushing SoD so hard and trying to prove to everyone that black is only half-black :D, since he doesn't actually participate in the Gameplay.
Or maybe he is a masochist after all, because he started this flame war and took the helm :smile54:

HotA only ofc. By mutual agreement SoD, WT, TE (poker, chess, hs, table tennis etc.)

Okay, high-low, we can agree on 8 games, or at worst, PLO.

In sports, there are basic rules of the sport itself, and there are rules for conducting competitions.
For example, the recently abolished "golden goal" rule is not a basic rule.

If we talk about basic rules, then, in the case of a genuine "mass consideration of viewers' opinions," football would probably still be without offsides and substitutions. And, speaking the language of hardcore fans, football with offsides and substitutions is not real football, but some kind of silly mod of the great classic game.

Hello everyone!

We're creating two groups: one with "true" Sylvan units and one with Hota adept units, with a correction factor for exiting the group. Starting from the 1/4 or 1/2 finals, we'll use mixed templates.

For example, 6 Sylvan units and 26 Hota units, totaling 32.
From each group, 2 and 6 units advance to the quarterfinals.

Is that correct?

Here are the last couple of points I'd like to clarify regarding the mix in our proposal. I hope I can refrain from getting into an endless argument (and please don't provoke me! :smile14:).
There will be no HL+U templates on Soda, meaning the risk of prolonged matches will be minimized (since we need to be prepared for the fact that Overlord's Help might not work, as happened in Georgia) - HL+U templates, even with Overlord's Help on Soda, are statistically not very viable, considering the need to adhere to tournament deadlines (prolonged matches until late at night, sometimes even until morning, sometimes with "papal postponement" - we all remember this very well - but even under these conditions, we managed to meet the criteria for the Championship). Here, again, there is a possibility of adjustment based on the audience - by including one large template in the Soda pool, if necessary - and this would be 8mm6lm10 (a modification that has already been tested in online tournaments and is more playable than the traditional 8mm6a and 6lm10a on Soda).
Why am I personally interested in the mix and what is its main advantage: the ability to put the opponent in an uncomfortable "arena" for them and see how they will struggle on unfamiliar territory. I'm all for action. In pure HotA, I don't see this action and excitement; it feels a bit bland.
So, I'm not seriously advocating for Soda.
I'm seriously advocating for action and spectacle, that is, primarily increasing interest and expanding the target audience: it's very comfortable to play in a warm "bubble" on "your own field," but the proposed mix increases variability. :smile13:
And the opinion of viewers will most likely not have any impact beyond the overall statistics. I believe that the final opinion of regular players will generally coincide with the final opinion of regular viewers.
But let's at least conduct a poll to make objective conclusions about this. The majority in active online play (at least within the scope of our explored "oikumene") are currently playing HotA - this is a fact that only a madman would argue with. Does the majority of the CIS audience actually need Soda (and the CIS is still a somewhat separate movement)? This is the main goal of the poll. The available data suggests that at the time of CIS-2019, it was too early to exclude Soda.
The main goal of the CIS is to attract the maximum number of real participants, who annually develop our movement.
So, I urge everyone to think about the aspect of the game, interest, and victory in the game. Do you really want to fight opponents on a "field" that is convenient for them? :smile51:
The mix is an opportunity not to divide into confrontational camps, but for everyone to play together in the game for which we are gathering, and that game is Heroes 3.

I suggest we consider the main version – a pot-limit Omaha game. Thank you.

And I believe that the main version should be NL Hold'em, and we'll play Omaha as a dealer's choice! And this is my firm position:D :D :D

Added 3 minutes ago

This year, the organizer had a different opinion.:smile31:

A forum argument is a traditional and integral part of the CIS. :smile23:

It's not obvious that the overwhelming majority of the CIS tournament player audience would choose between a mixed game and an only-Hold'em game – they would choose only-Hold'em (after all, the CIS is not a lobby). The statistics from the last tournament clearly confirm this (but at the same time, the organizing committee doesn't want to run a kindergarten and is ready to work with the option chosen by the target audience). Perhaps the situation has changed drastically in six months – and this will be clearly visible in the voting. At the same time, Hellight's vote has exactly the same weight as Predsa's vote, as well as Dave-Khan's vote.
The votes of viewers are an openly discussed issue – how valuable they are and whether they are valuable at all. From the organizer's point of view, without viewers, it will not be possible to gather a quorum to cover the entire base, or the final price per person will increase significantly.

Before CIS-2019, there was an illusion of choice. Now there are no illusions. The 75% threshold of participating players represents that overwhelming majority. In the incomplete mixed game, a third of the games were played in Soda. Roughly estimate how many games would be played in a full mixed game on both versions (of course, with an adequate pool of templates). I calculated – I get about fifty-fifty.

Kirill, stop making things up. In reality, all those who wanted to play Soda are the 6 people listed above, but they would all play Hold'em without any problems, so there's no need to refer to statistics. Hold a vote, and everyone will see.

The most obvious one is Only SOD.

SOD if I go
although I won't be strongly opposed to Khoty.