Skip to content

Posts from World Team Cup 2019! Discussion about organizing the second world championship.

No ratings yet — be the first to rate!
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Greetings to everyone—players, streamers, organizers, and spectators. I have been contacted by the sponsor of last year's world championship, and they are ready to invest again with a prize pool of 50,000 rubles.

The goal is once again to gather as many national teams as possible and stream all games (or, in extreme cases, upload recordings from both sides).

As with last year, we plan to hold the tournament exclusively on the version SoD.

There are some points I would like to discuss and get opinions on before making decisions:

1. Should a single player from countries where no other players are known be allowed into the tournament as a "team"? If so, in what form?
- Not allow them. Let them unite with other singles from different countries (Team Asia, Team World, Team Western Europe, etc.).
- Allow them, but in this case, games against these teams should be BO1 instead of BO3.
- Allow them, but let these teams start the game with a score of 0:1 in favor of the opponent (as if the second player from their team failed to show up for the first game). They must first equalize the score and then try to snatch a victory.
- Perhaps you have a better option.

2. Games are currently planned to be played without rules.
This is to level the playing field for players accustomed to different rule sets (HeroesWorld, HP, WCL, or players outside of portals—Game Rangers, social networks, etc.). The last tournament showed that WCL and Game Rangers players were unable to adapt to the simplified HeroesWorld rules and spoke about it. We also reduce the chance of rule violations during the tournament.

3. Should additional plugins be used to fix bugs in SoD and tailor the game for "no-rules" play? Game versions will be created in different languages with pre-installed plugins configured for tournament games.

The following changes are currently being considered:
- Fixing shifted guards (not 100%, but in many cases).
- The ability to decline skills at witch huts and scholars.
- Always starting with three stacks of units and the second level of creatures already built.
- Reducing the number of obelisks on the map so that the excavation radius is larger.
- Convenient movement point tracking and more information on spells in the spellbook.
- Improvements to Eagle Eye, Scouting, Training, Mysticism skills, and Quicksand, Mines, Cloak spells, etc.
- Plugins that fix many gameplay bugs

Changes that may cause more negativity, and therefore their implementation is currently very questionable:
- Diplomacy joining only for a fee.
- A third of the monsters on the map never join.
- Stack limit for joining based on value.
- Strengthening guards on higher-level scrolls

4. Template pool. As last championship showed, there isn't much point in using XL+U and mini-Nostalgia templates. A large portion of games on them dragged on for a whole day or night, and spectators simply watched in parts. And if saving was required—it was even worse. In general, we need more or less dynamic templates designed for games lasting 2-4 hours (maximum 5-6), no more.

The following are currently being considered (if a team is found that is willing to stream the more traditional templates every week, the list will be changed):
Vera S+U, Karnaval S+U – ultra-fast (for those with no time—1-3 hours)
Vera M or mt_Vera M - very dynamic with treasure zones like in Jebus Cross (also 1-3 hour games)
Dom M+U, mt_Dom M+U - dynamic, sometimes medium-dynamic (games last 2-5 hours)
Jebus Cross XL - quite dynamic (usually 3-6 hour games)
mt_Jebus L+U - medium-dynamic, mirrored (usually 4-8 hour games)
Diamond L+U - medium-dynamic
2sm4d(3) XL - medium-dynamic, sometimes drags on (played at size XL as more playable outcomes are achieved, plus treasure zones in swamps and snows are disabled)
6lm10a XL+U - quite balanced and the most popular among XL+U, but games there sometimes last 8-12 hours, which is burdensome for everyone. However, it's quite interesting. If it is allowed, we need streamers ready to stream games on it, plus allow it no more than once per game series, for example.

5. Team of judges and streamers. We will need people who are ready to stream tournament games with commentary (at least some) or back up those streaming in case of technical failures. The last tournament showed that not all volunteers were actually able to stream—so we need a surplus of people. With "no-rules" play, there likely won't be many rule violations, but disputed situations will still need to be resolved in rare cases.

6. If teams cannot agree on a date and time for the game: then the organizer, judges, or team captains determine the date and time of the game via a coin toss on random.org. All remaining dates for the current round (turn) are listed in a column, and a date is randomly determined. Then the following hours are listed, and the time is also randomly determined based on the game date:
12:00 MSK
13:00 MSK
14:00 MSK
15:00 MSK
16:00 MSK
17:00 MSK
18:00 MSK
19:00 MSK

7. For tardiness, players will be given yellow cards. 2 yellow cards result in missing a game series. If a player accumulates cards again, they miss 2 game series, and so on. Cards will also be issued for gameplay violations or clear suspicions of unfair play—yellow and red cards. Everything will be detailed in the regulations.

8. Simultaneous turns. If additional sponsors are found, we can pay for simultaneous turns (OH) for all tournament players to make every game more dynamic.

For now, these seem to be the main points on which I would like to get opinions, reasoned criticism, and advice.

Ютуб канал со стримами, обучениями, новостями, шоу-турнирами с призовыми
Огромная пополняемая сборка игр разных игроков
Твитч канал
Гудгейм канал
Группа Вконтакте

Беседа для поиска соперников в ICQ (460+ человек) - ICQ Heroes 3 Chat (460+ peoples)
https://icq.com/chat/AoLCp9xL2UAnLZKubgc

По вопросам организации и спонсорства шоу турниров с полным освещением писать в ЛС
Финансовая поддержка

User Avatar
Auto-translated
Armageddets
Should we allow players from countries where no other player is known to participate in the tournament as a team of 1? If so, in what form?
The only more-or-less viable option for such participation is for the player to play all matches alone (meaning they must plan their time to ensure all games are played on schedule). Starting with a score of 0-1 would artificially and significantly lower their chances of victory: it's not their fault that they are the only one from their country. Playing BO1 against solo players is a complete lottery, especially considering the game has no rules. And this could actually turn out to be disadvantageous for a full team.
Armageddets
- Improvement of skills like Eagle Eye, Reconnaissance, Training, Mysticism and spells such as Quicksand, Mines, Cloak and others.
Why change anything at all (besides bug fixes)? If outside players already struggle to adapt to the simplified HeroesWorld rules, then it will only get worse here—a large-scale change in functionality will only complicate the situation, and it will make it more complicated for everyone.
Armageddets
5. A team of judges and streamers.
What are the preliminary estimated dates?
Armageddets
8. Simultaneous turns. If additional sponsors are found, we could pay for same-turn (ST) for all tournament players to make each game more dynamic.
I believe that a person who is able to afford a computer and internet services can also find the money in their own budget for ST. Well, yes, this has been discussed many times—there are those who fundamentally refuse to pay for someone else's work, but there are few of them. Making ST a condition for participation would reduce the time spent on each match by 1-2 hours: judging by established classic patterns, that is a saving of 20-40% of time per game; accordingly, the broadcast for streamers will also take much less time.
Нам это идеально подойдёт! (с)

"Совесть - она либо есть, либо её нет" (с) RedWhait HP
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Thank you for the feedback. I agree that it is not the players' fault that there are fewer players. The only thing is to ensure this doesn't lead to a situation where captains in larger teams don't play themselves. Otherwise, there won't be much point to the teams—it will just be single-player participations. And if some are forbidden from playing alone while others are allowed, that would also mean unequal conditions, unfortunately. We'll need to think about how to best implement and define this.

I wouldn't really want to make large-scale changes to the interface. Fix bugs, add features that won't cause significant discomfort (for example, disabling water spells, rebuilding the Mage Guild from any level, opting out of skills at the hut and with scholars, paying off neutrals, etc.). But balancing the game for "no-rules" play is already complicated. That's why I want to hear different opinions. As for the skills—if we don't change the core meaning of how they work, but just make them slightly more useful (Eagle Eye gives spells during battle rather than after, mines and quicksand summon only 2 more units, scouting gives +a few cells at expert level)—it doesn't make them OP, nor even a vital part of the game; they will still be used quite rarely. The only thing is that if you enjoy it, you can at least see it in the game occasionally. So that everything in the game is as playable as possible—albeit to varying degrees. But of course, this could introduce certain misunderstandings and errors, which is not good, and that's why discussion is necessary.

I think we should discuss the tournament for about a week, maybe slightly less, then spend about 1-2 weeks assembling teams, posting the regulations (they are almost ready) and the configured game versions so that people can already start playing. We can say how long the tournament will last once it becomes clear how many teams there are and what format can be selected for that number. In theory: a group stage + playoffs (with or without a lower bracket). 1 series of games per week.

Regarding OH. In theory, yes. But in practice, it turns out that players who play outside of game portals aren't particularly keen on playing in tournaments, and if they have to pay for something too, it will discourage them even more. For example, we had players from Bulgaria, Romania, Estonia, etc., who were not ready to pay. And the Czech team didn't want to play at first partly because of OH, and by the time they assembled, it was already too late. Korea specifically decided not to participate back then because of OH.

Ютуб канал со стримами, обучениями, новостями, шоу-турнирами с призовыми
Огромная пополняемая сборка игр разных игроков
Твитч канал
Гудгейм канал
Группа Вконтакте

Беседа для поиска соперников в ICQ (460+ человек) - ICQ Heroes 3 Chat (460+ peoples)
https://icq.com/chat/AoLCp9xL2UAnLZKubgc

По вопросам организации и спонсорства шоу турниров с полным освещением писать в ЛС
Финансовая поддержка

User Avatar
Auto-translated
Armageddets


1. Should mixed teams be allowed in the tournament, consisting of 1 player from countries where there are no other known players? If so, in what format?
- No, mixed teams should not be allowed. They should team up with other individual players from other countries (e.g., a team representing Asia, a team representing the World, a team representing Western Europe, etc.).
- Mixed teams should be allowed, but in this case, instead of a Best-of-3 (BO3) match, they should play a Best-of-1 (BO1) match against these mixed teams.
- Mixed teams should be allowed, but in this case, they should start with a score of 0:1 in favor of their opponent (as if the first player on their team didn't show up for the first game). They need to equalize the score first and then try to win.
- Perhaps you have a better option.


As an alternative, allow the team captain to include a player from another country in their team, provided that the player agrees to represent that team.
In reply to Armageddets
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Armageddets

Regarding the Overlord’s Hut. In theory, yes. But in practice, it turns out that players who play outside of the game's portals aren't particularly eager to participate in tournaments, and if they also have to pay something, it will deter them even more. For example, we had players from Bulgaria, Romania, Estonia, etc., who were not willing to pay. And even the Czech team initially refused to play due to the Overlord’s Hut, among other reasons, and by the time they decided to participate, it was already too late. Korea didn't participate at that time specifically because of the Overlord’s Hut.

I will pay for the Overlord’s Hut (for the Overlord and Blessing) for tournament participants throughout the tournament. Through the "Gift" button.

For gifting, the organizer sends me the lobby nickname.
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Then it would be a tournament not between national teams, but between regular teams. I would like the player to have some connection to a particular team. But overall, it's a good backup option.
Thank you, OsFaraon, for your support.

Ютуб канал со стримами, обучениями, новостями, шоу-турнирами с призовыми
Огромная пополняемая сборка игр разных игроков
Твитч канал
Гудгейм канал
Группа Вконтакте

Беседа для поиска соперников в ICQ (460+ человек) - ICQ Heroes 3 Chat (460+ peoples)
https://icq.com/chat/AoLCp9xL2UAnLZKubgc

По вопросам организации и спонсорства шоу турниров с полным освещением писать в ЛС
Финансовая поддержка

User Avatar
Auto-translated
Without rules - there is no need, and using all sorts of third-party plugins is also bad. It would be better if one of the tournament's goals is to familiarize people with the rules and attract visitors to HeroesWorld (mainly from the tournament's audience). Only minor simplifications of the rules could be allowed - for example, allowing bypassing shifted guards on the smk (except ГО).
"There's no need to execute me,sir Davos . I'll be dead before dawn."
ICQ 716748479
User Avatar
Auto-translated
It's funny that HotA isn't actually played, but a lot of changes are made to SoD, which significantly affects the gameplay. Just decide whether you want to play SoD or a balance mod.
User Avatar
Auto-translated
I see nothing wrong with the rules for inter-portal tournaments being formed based on the rules of all participating portals, or even having games without any rules at all. By defining the rules of a single portal for a tournament, we immediately tailor it to players from that one platform — that is not right. The chances, comfort, and practice need to be balanced between players from different countries and platforms.

Forming a tournament from just HeroesWorld, we won't even reach the quorum of the previous tournament, let alone anything larger. The previous quorum of players was gathered from many places.

Added after 13 minutes
Marcus Aurelius
The funny thing is that HotA is fundamentally not played, but a bunch of changes are being introduced into SoD that heavily affect gameplay. Please make up your minds: do you want to play SoD or a balance mod?

Apparently there is no understanding of why not just HotA. I'll explain:
1) HotA — it's the impossibility to configure the game for a specific tournament as flexibly as in SoD through game settings and plugins. HotA forces you to play with everything the developers made each tournament.
2) HotA is a constant expansion of features and variety, moving further away from the original every year, without the ability to enable/disable what you need or don't need. That is, in HotA players constantly have to adapt to something new, while SoD is more stable in this regard (except for rare tournaments where the organizer tries to diversify the format or fix something with plugins).
3) Not all of HotA's innovations are unambiguously perceived as good. There are both good ones and, to put it mildly, not-so-good ones. If we decided to hold a tournament as a world championship for Heroes, then the latest official version is SoD, and that is our starting point.

All changes that might be made are still being discussed and are not aimed at trying to create a different version of the game, but at tweaking the game for a specific tournament format — nothing more. Moreover, most of them are some kind of bug fixes or utilities (Mage Guild rework, skill removal, etc.). This does not introduce a radically different balance into the game, like in HotA.

You can make a bunch of add-ons for any game and try to run something with them. But the official versions still remain — firstly, as the engine and common link for all subsequent add-ons, and secondly, they are what will be considered the original, the classic, and the official versions. Whether anyone likes it or not.

But it's clear that everyone sees what they want to see.
You can endlessly ask why not HotA, why not WT, why not Vog, why not MOP, etc.? The answer will always be simple — why?

Currently, we have the following preliminary teams:
Russia
Ukraine
Belarus
Latvia
Romania
Bulgaria
Serbia
Syria
Estonia and Kazakhstan need reinforcement from players or merging with other teams

Still in question:
Moldova
South Korea
Georgia
Armenia
Lithuania
Czech Republic
Slovakia
Croatia
China
Vietnam
Poland
Hungary
Kazakhstan
Uzbekistan

Declined:
Sweden

Added after 3 hours 36 minutes
A rough draft of the tournament regulations currently looks like this:

TEAM WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 2019
IN HEROES OF MIGHT AND MAGIC 3

Requirements for National Teams
0) Each national team must select a captain, who is responsible for recruiting players for the team. He decides how many people will be on the team and which player to field for a game when.
1) A team from any existing country can register for the tournament (autonomous republics and disputed territories may register as a separate team).
2) The number of players on a team is not limited by a maximum.
3) The minimum number of participants on a team is 2 people
4) Players who cannot form their own national team may unite into a team with other players who also cannot form their national teams (e.g., Central Europe Team, Asia Team, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan Team, or 2-3 players from neighboring countries unite). There is, of course, the option to allow those teams to play individually if no one is known besides just one player.

Requirements for Team Participants
4) A player has the right to play for a national team if they meet one of the following points (and can provide proof if necessary):
- Holds citizenship of that country
- Resides in that country (autonomy)
- Has roots (parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, great-great-grandparents are from that country)
5) Each player has the right to play for only one country
6) Each national team must appoint a captain and their deputy (they do not necessarily have to play), who can be contacted by both opponents and organizers/referees. The captains also decide who will play in a particular match.

Requirements for Tournament Players:
1) Must be able to stream their game on Youtube.com, Twitch.tv, or other streaming platforms, or provide a screen share via Skype, Discord (full or web versions), ICQ, or as a last resort Teamviewer. The game video after the stream must remain publicly available after the stream. A player streaming their game must set Fps to no more than 30-40 — otherwise, the lead streamers may have video desync between different players.
2) Each player must provide data for the intro at least 1-2 days before the game:
Photo, Year of Birth, Country, City (or cities), Achievements (prize places, nominations, organized events) with years specified

Template Pool (with specific settings to be added later):
Vera S+U, Karnaval S+U – ultra-fast
Vera M or mt_Vera – very dynamic
Dom M+U – dynamic, sometimes moderately dynamic
mt_Dom M+U – dynamic, sometimes moderately dynamic, mirror
Jebus Cross XL – fairly dynamic
mt_Jebus L+U – moderately dynamic, mirror
Diamond L+U – moderately dynamic
2sm4d(3) XL – moderately dynamic, sometimes drags on
6lm10a XL+U – fairly balanced and most popular among XL+U, but sometimes games last 8-12 hours, which is costly for everyone. But it's quite interesting

Tournament Format:
1) Presumably a group stage, followed by playoffs.
2) A pair of national teams play a series of games best of two victories.
3) The captains of the national teams or their representatives must contact the captains (or representatives) of the opposing team and decide by coin toss who chooses the template and the first player for the first game, and who for the second. For the third game, the fielded players ban templates.

Game Settings:
1) The game is played on Heroes 3. Shadow of Death + HD mod (latest version)
2) Timer 12+6+2 with simultaneous turns until 121.
3) All games must be played with simultaneous turns. For those who cannot pay for their simultaneous turns, OsFaraon will pay for it. The duration of simultaneous turns for all templates is specified individually for each.
Players must check the boxes in the launcher:
- save before battle
- save all days for tournaments

GAME START:
1) Before the game starts, a random pair of castles is generated. Then bidding for towns takes place (players, as in an auction, take turns offering more gold (each has 10,000); whoever offers the most or offers the maximum chooses any castle from the drawn pair of towns. The offered gold is transferred in the settings to the player who lost the auction).
2) Then bidding for color choice takes place (based on the gold remaining after the town bidding), similar to the previous bidding.

Restarts
0) Restart — the ability to refuse to play a bad draw or a poorly played opening draw.
2) Players have a total of 2 days (day 112) for restarts (2 times a restart can be taken on the first day of the game before passing the turn, or 1 restart can be taken on the second day). If a player has already passed the turn, their restart is counted for the next day.
3) On mirror templates, only 1 restart is given on the first day (day 111).
4) When playing with simultaneous turns, the red player first says if they are playing the draw (writes + or "I play" in chat), and then the blue player decides whether to restart. Even if the red player passed the turn during simultaneous turns, the blue player has the right to take a restart for a new day as if it were the previous day if the blue player has not yet moved their heroes or built in the new day.

Game Rules:
1) It is forbidden for both the playing player and their team to watch the opponent's stream. A player caught doing so may receive a technical loss, disqualification, or substitution.
2) If a player's actions on the map or other facts allow strong suspicion of unfair play, a replay, technical loss, or disqualification may be assigned.
3) 1 week is given for each series of games.
4) Player substitutions are allowed if a player cannot or does not want to finish a game for another from their team
5) If a player cannot provide a video of their game, stream, or screen share, the result of their game may not be counted.
6) Before each game, players must notify the organizer or hosts at least 1 day before the game about the time and date of the next game. It is advisable not to play without notice — since if one of the players ends up without a video of the game, their result may not be counted.
7) If a disconnection or crash occurs in the game, the player who was taking their turn must repeat their turn as closely as possible (as it was up to the point of disconnection or game crash). Losses in battles are especially important. If the player loses fewer troops during the repeated turn (they need to remove troops to match the same losses).
8) Each player must keep all saves until the end of the tournament.
9) The game must be played with passwords enabled for saves.
10) Players must exchange passwords after the game.

Resolution of Disputed and Problematic Situations:
1) Preferred playing time — weekdays from 19:00 MSK and weekends from 12:00 MSK. Games can be played at other times by agreement with opponents and hosts. Each game must be announced in advance — ideally 1-2 days before the game.
2) If teams cannot agree on a date and time for the game. Then the organizer, referees, or team captains determine the date and time of the game by coin toss on the website random.org. All remaining dates for the current round are written in a column and a date is randomly determined. Then the following hours are written and the time is also randomly determined for the mandatory game date:
12:00 MSK
13:00 MSK
14:00 MSK
15:00 MSK
16:00 MSK
17:00 MSK
18:00 MSK
19:00 MSK
3) For a player being an hour or more late for a game — they receive a yellow card. For 2 yellow cards or one red card — the player misses the next round of games.
4) For 2 late arrivals to a game from one team during a single series of games — the team receives a technical loss at the request of the opposing team
5) In the event of force majeure circumstances, the tournament referees will consider the incident and issue a decision on it.
6) In the event of a stalemate in battle where one player cannot catch the second, and the second cannot kill the first — a draw in the game is recorded if neither player wants to buy their way out or flee.
7) If a battle between heroes in a game lasts 50 rounds or more — one of the players must buy their way out or flee. If neither player flees or buys out — a draw result is recorded.
8) In the event that one of the teams cannot field any player for a game by the deadline — a technical loss is recorded for them in that game.
9) If a crash or disconnection occurs for one of the players, they are obliged to load from the battle file or the latest save, autosave, which is later in time.
If for 50 consecutive rounds the attacker does not kill the enemy and does not cause damage — they are forced to retreat or surrender.
If during a battle a player does not make a move with their unit for more than 15 minutes — they receive a yellow card. 2 yellow cards — technical loss and missing the match.
The number of games a player misses increases by one unit with each red card (or two yellow cards) for them.
Distribution of places in the group.
The following priorities apply in order of decreasing priority:
1) Points earned
2) Difference between wins and losses (if the difference is equal, the one with more solo wins ranks higher)
2) Head-to-head result
3) Berger coefficient
4) Who spent fewer days on winning games

Issuing Cards:
1) For serious suspicions of unfair play, a player may be issued a yellow or red card.

Requirements for Streamers:
-The stream design must include pre-designed overlays and a banner with the tournament name. Show the intro video splash screen of the tournament at the beginning and end of the stream.
-Broadcast showing both sides of the players (ideally focusing on the conduct of battles — since there is more action there). The second player should also be visible, either in a corner in a small window, or by splitting the screen in half to see both at once until the simultaneous turn ends.
- Each streamer must be backed up by another streamer in case the first has technical issues or force majeure circumstances. This could be a second co-caster, for example.
- If possible, do not use profanity during commentary. Otherwise, our videos may fall under 18+ restrictions and not everyone will be able to watch them.
- As soon as it becomes known that a pair of players has agreed on a game, information about the game and date is sent to the common chat of the tournament hosts, and whoever can stream it replies in the chat. Those who wish to commentate together can also reply there. Also, the person who can back up the main streamer in case of issues writes there (i.e., will also capture the players in OBS in advance and wait). Streaming the same game by different streamers in parallel is also possible — this is essentially another form of backup.
- Streamers who will stream in any language convenient for them are allowed into the tournament for streams. But for each game, ideally, at least 1 Russian-speaking streamer is needed for CIS countries.
- During the stream, it is advisable not to use copyrighted music so that the tournament video can be preserved for the longest possible time. Ideally, proceed with one of the following options:
1) Stream without music
2) Stream with royalty-free music of any genre (links to it will be provided) from YouTube or social media groups, specialized websites.
3) Stream without music at all
- All streamers, by agreeing to participate in covering the tournament, automatically allow the organizer, if necessary, to re-record their streams onto our channel so that all videos are saved and edited (in case any problems arise), for viewers and sponsors.

Ютуб канал со стримами, обучениями, новостями, шоу-турнирами с призовыми
Огромная пополняемая сборка игр разных игроков
Твитч канал
Гудгейм канал
Группа Вконтакте

Беседа для поиска соперников в ICQ (460+ человек) - ICQ Heroes 3 Chat (460+ peoples)
https://icq.com/chat/AoLCp9xL2UAnLZKubgc

По вопросам организации и спонсорства шоу турниров с полным освещением писать в ЛС
Финансовая поддержка

User Avatar
Auto-translated
You are trying to unite players from different portals and other places based on a common SOD (set of rules/mod), which everyone knows, and at the same time, change it, I would say, radically. For example, "The ability to bribe neutrals," what is the need for this? This is a serious change to the gameplay. I think it would be better to limit ourselves to fixing the generator and the damage of all spells in the spellbook. And testing such sets of mods should be left for less important tournaments.
Auto-translated
Armageddets

Currently, the following changes are being considered:
- Fixing shifted guards (not 100%, but in many cases).
- The ability to refuse skills at Witch Huts and from Scholars.

I agree with the first two points.
- Always start with three stacks of units and a built second-level dwelling.
I entirely don't understand why. With this "fix", you're changing the hero balance. Dragons from the mine will be taken over Tazar with Gunnar, etc. I could understand a mandatory second stack, but three...
- Reducing the number of obelisks on the map so the dig radius is larger.
Also a bad fix. By reducing the number of obelisks, first of all you won't distribute them evenly across the map, and secondly you'll simplify the digging process. This should be a rarely achieved parameter, not in every second game.
- The ability to buy off neutrals.
Absolutely, entirely, and completely contradicts the logic of the game and its balance. Where will the money go??? What benefit does the opponent get from you buying off neutrals???
- Convenient calculation of movement points and more information about spells in the spellbook.
My IMHO, against it. This greatly reduces the variance in skill and speed of decision-making. Haven't you noticed on the HotA ladder that players in HotA have ALL BECOME THE SAME LEVEL, except for a couple of people? Precisely because of such fixes.
- Improvement of skills: Eagle Eye, Scouting, Learning, Mysticism, and spells: Quicksand, Land Mine, Disguise, etc.
What's wrong with Scouting and Mysticism? How do you break through a strong 2-hex guard if you don't have Oil but do have Quicksand? I don't see the global logic in these fixes. You don't want them to be obtained — remove them. But I don't see much point in that either.
- Plugins that fix many in-game bugs.

Changes that may cause more negativity, so their implementation is still very much in question:
- Joining via diplomacy is only paid.
- A third of monsters on the map never join.
- Stack joining limit based on value.

A game with diplomacy will never lead to anything good, balance-wise.
- Troops in Dragon Fly Hives and Conservatories are changed to native 6th-7th level.
The Fresh mod already exists. IMHO, rounding up should be done.
For example, Mini Hive = 280 HP = 2 Castle horses, since they have 300 HP. Rounding up gives 3 Castle horses.
But Necro horses will still be 2.
- Curbing Luna and everything related to Necromancy by 2 times.
Then Luna will become an ordinary mage with a wall. If you want to nerf it — then change the specialization. As for Necros, you'd then have to at least allow the Power Up, and at most, greater vampires.
- Curbing Logistics.
I'd like more detail here. Logistics or logisticians? If you remove Logi from the game, then XL maps will be played for 12+ hours by two equally skilled opponents.
- Strengthening guards on higher-level scrolls.
This also needs to be done carefully. Should control spells be distinguished from combat spells? Should Implosion be valued more than Mirror Image? Etc.
- Unbanning campaign heroes (except for imbalanced ones like Gelu and Dragon, and 7th-level unit specialists).
Well, no comment here. One question: why?

4. Template pool. As the last championship showed, there's not much point in using XL+U and mini-Nostalgia templates. A large share of games on them dragged on for a whole day or night, and viewers just watched in parts. And if you also had to save — that's even worse. In general, we need more or less dynamic templates, designed for games of 2-4 hours (5-6 max), no more.

2sm4d(3) XL - moderately dynamic, sometimes drags on (played on XL size because more playable games are generated, plus treasure zones on swamps and snow are disabled).


An XL SMK without an underground? More balanced and playable? Could you send me the template in a PM, because I find that hard to believe.

For now, these seem to be the main points on which I'd like to hear opinions, justified criticism, and advice.

Apologies, it was tedious to figure out how to comment in parts, so answers are not highlighted in bold, but questions are in bold.
I'm not sure I'm right about everything, but that's my opinion
User Avatar
Auto-translated
The ability to buy off neutrals is just one of the points under discussion. It doesn't radically change the game, and certainly doesn't affect the balance. If before you could only break for free, with this plugin, in addition to free breaking, a paid option will appear. This applies to all factions and all heroes without exception. The money goes to the neutrals – that is, into the void. What benefit does the opponent get? That you have lost some of your money.

Regarding three stacks at the start and a built level 2 dwelling. This reduces randomness at the start of the game. Is it normal when one player gets one stack and another gets three, creating unequal conditions right away? Regarding Tazar, Dragons, etc. - In the tournament, there is bargaining – if you consider someone imbalanced, negotiate over them or sell them very expensively. A Dragon will give you a boost at the start and only one unit, while Tazar is a hero for the long term and works with all units.

The frequency of obelisks and their number can be configured. The more obelisks there are, the easier it is to dig up the Grail when the map is scouted – the excavation radius is smaller.

Calculation of movement points. You can work towards speeding up the game or slowing it down. The fewer moments that force a player to stall, the faster the games will go, and the fewer players there will be who are dissatisfied with the short timer. There is such a thing as decision-making speed and thinking speed – everyone has a different one. This doesn't mean one is smarter and the other dumber – it's just differently wired brains. It's like two different generations of RAM – both run the same games, but at different speeds. Similarly, both players know the same things, but their physiology is different.

What's bad about Scouting and Mysticism? That's a question for the players. Why do you avoid them if they are supposedly great?))) In reality, the game is filled with useless skills, spells, etc.

Regarding Diplomacy. When playing with it, practice shows that those who play better win, but with elements of luck. When playing without Diplomacy, it's the same. But without rules, the game is more varied, dynamic, and spectacular, while with rules, it's playing a trimmed-down version of the game, for the sake of the mystical balance, of course, but trimmed down. Or does someone think that on some portal, some rules perfectly balanced the game without throwing out part of it?

Regarding Necropolis – a game without rules already allows all upgrades and all buildings.

Regarding unbanning heroes – it's simply more variety in hero selection for different towns and an element for discussion, nothing more.

Regarding Logistics and logisticians, there are different plugins – both with fixed values and without.

СМКА is included in the standard template collection – you remove the Underground and the template allows you to set XL. There will be an opportunity to test it. We've already played many games this way.

Regarding value. We already have many lotteries in the game. Should a good Utopia have more value than a bad one, or a Conservatory or a Dragon Fly Hive? So I see no point in differentiating.

Much of what's been proposed may not be added at all. This is up for discussion. If serious, well-reasoned arguments appear for one side or the other, we will listen to them.

Ютуб канал со стримами, обучениями, новостями, шоу-турнирами с призовыми
Огромная пополняемая сборка игр разных игроков
Твитч канал
Гудгейм канал
Группа Вконтакте

Беседа для поиска соперников в ICQ (460+ человек) - ICQ Heroes 3 Chat (460+ peoples)
https://icq.com/chat/AoLCp9xL2UAnLZKubgc

По вопросам организации и спонсорства шоу турниров с полным освещением писать в ЛС
Финансовая поддержка

In reply to Armageddets
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Armageddets
The ability to buy off neutrals is just one of the points under discussion. It doesn't fundamentally change the game, and certainly doesn't affect the balance.
It does change it, and fundamentally at that. It might not affect the availability of use for both players ("balance," as you put it), but it radically affects the game itself — the tactics and strategies of all game components, including bidding for towns and color (even the bidding itself likely confuses some of the foreign audience). This innovation will require a review of many aspects and a new prioritization in games.
I'll repeat once more — if players from other countries and platforms find it problematic to adapt to any HeroesWorld rules, then changing any functionality will be an even bigger problem.
But, on the other hand, again — he who pays the piper calls the tune. If the goal of the tournament is to test certain ideas/innovations, then there are no questions. But then why bother with the World Championship?
You yourself say that the goal is to find an option optimal for a wide range of participants from different countries. And such an option, by your own words, is classic SoD under anarchy rules. So there's no need to change much (only bug fixes). Otherwise, it will no longer be SoD, but yet another amateur game addon that will scare off many potential participants.
Armageddets
You can create a bunch of addons for any game and try to run something there. But the official versions still remain — firstly, as the engine and common link for all subsequent addons, and secondly, they are the ones that will be considered the original, classic, and official versions. Whether someone likes it or not.
Нам это идеально подойдёт! (с)

"Совесть - она либо есть, либо её нет" (с) RedWhait HP
User Avatar
Auto-translated
All proposed changes are being discussed because I am not ready to include them in the final regulations without the approval of the players, the sponsor, and the team that will be assembled to run the tournament.

I take into account the opinion of each of you, as the criticism is well-reasoned. Some are also sending their comments in private messages. Some don't like that there will be a SoD (Sudden Death), others that the game is being played without rules, and still others dislike the format itself, etc.

The sponsor pays and orders the music, of course. But he is open to dialogue, and just as in the previous tournament, we managed to convince him to make some changes, I think we can do the same this time – he will agree to some changes without any problems. The tournament format is still a bit rough.

The main thing is that, with the changes made:
1) We gather a quorum of teams and players.
2) We assemble a team that will be ready to participate in running such a tournament (I can't handle such a large tournament on my own, at least if I am the only one, it will be very long).

Added 1 hour 27 minutes ago
At the moment, we are preliminarily getting the following teams:
Russia
Ukraine
Belarus
Latvia
Romania
Bulgaria
Serbia
Syria
Lithuania
France!
Estonia and Kazakhstan need to be reinforced with players or merged with other teams.

The following are still uncertain:
Moldova
South Korea
Georgia
Armenia
Czech Republic
Slovakia
Croatia
China
Vietnam
Poland
Hungary
Uzbekistan

Decline:
Sweden

Ютуб канал со стримами, обучениями, новостями, шоу-турнирами с призовыми
Огромная пополняемая сборка игр разных игроков
Твитч канал
Гудгейм канал
Группа Вконтакте

Беседа для поиска соперников в ICQ (460+ человек) - ICQ Heroes 3 Chat (460+ peoples)
https://icq.com/chat/AoLCp9xL2UAnLZKubgc

По вопросам организации и спонсорства шоу турниров с полным освещением писать в ЛС
Финансовая поддержка

In reply to Armageddets
Auto-translated
Armageddets
The ability to bribe neutral creatures is just one of the points being discussed. It doesn't fundamentally change the game, let alone affect the balance.
So, when faced with the choice of attacking an opponent who might have bracers, and if not, giving them money, or attacking neutral creatures, is there no difference?
I must be playing a different game...

Statistics

Welcome our newest member: Emil