Which level 7 creature is the best, and why? — Polls

eXeCuToR

9/26/2007 7:47 PM UTC

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It makes more sense to compare without magic. Otherwise, you could even win with a Goblin against a Monster.

Step aside from the way of a better man than you
So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you
Its the servants devotion for the decay
Stand up

There are no flowers on your grave
There are no chains
There I keep chanting for the forgotten name © Amorphis

In reply to eXeCuToR

Pisak1

9/26/2007 7:55 PM UTC

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That's right. But for a complete picture, it should be 10x10. In a 1x1 map, the speed parameter wins, and that's not interesting.

eXeCuToR

9/26/2007 8:34 PM UTC

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Absolutely correct! So, one-on-one, Chaos Duel is the best.

Step aside from the way of a better man than you
So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you
Its the servants devotion for the decay
Stand up

There are no flowers on your grave
There are no chains
There I keep chanting for the forgotten name © Amorphis

In reply to Pisak1

Ley

9/26/2007 10:21 PM UTC

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Pisak1;114373

That's right. But for the sake of completeness, it should be 10x10. In a 1x1 battle, the speed parameter wins, which isn't very interesting.

So what will you prove with that? Why only 10x10? Make it 10x10, 100x100, and 1000x1000, and then see who wins overall and draw conclusions based on that... And the turn priority doesn't matter here; all monsters of level 7 have different speeds, except for the Behemoth and Hydra, but who will win is not even a question...

"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."

In reply to Ley

eXeCuToR

9/27/2007 7:55 AM UTC

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Ley;114395

So what will you prove with this? Why only 10 vs. 10? Make it 10 vs. 10, 100 vs. 100, and 1000 vs. 1000, and then see who wins in total and draw conclusions based on that... And the turn priority here is irrelevant – all monsters of level 7 have different speeds, except for the Behemoth and Hydra, but who will win between them is not even a question...

Ley, agree that who strikes first also greatly influences the outcome. I must say that I haven't tested 100 Behemoths against 100 Archons, but I will test it today... But for some reason, it seems that the one who strikes first will win.

Step aside from the way of a better man than you
So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you
Its the servants devotion for the decay
Stand up

There are no flowers on your grave
There are no chains
There I keep chanting for the forgotten name © Amorphis

In reply to eXeCuToR

Ley

9/27/2007 9:02 AM UTC

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eXeCuToR;114419

Ley, agree that whoever strikes first has a significant impact. I should say that I haven't tested 100 Chimeras against 100 Archons, but I will test it today... But for some reason, it seems that whoever strikes first will win.

You have a strange way of expressing yourself... If we reason as you do, then monsters would always win, but the turn priority isn't in their favor, therefore monsters can only strike first in one single case - with Hydras, and even then, only when they are attacking.
To draw a meaningful conclusion, it is necessary to reason based on the speed of the unit, and not on who strikes first - that's silly, IMHO.

"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."

Sage

9/27/2007 12:44 PM UTC

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In a 100 vs. 100 battle, speed is even more important than in a 1 vs. 1 fight. Whoever strikes first will immediately kill a certain number of monsters, meaning the counterattack will be with fewer than one hundred units. In a 100 vs. 100 battle, Phoenixes will definitely dominate, unless you take 200 of them (because their growth rate is twice as high).

Твой дом там, где твоё сердце.
Все люди - братья, но в каждом из нас спит волк.

In reply to Sage

Ley

9/27/2007 1:04 PM UTC

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Sage;114459

In a battle of 100 vs. 100, speed is even more important than in a 1 vs. 1 fight. Whoever strikes first will immediately kill a certain number of monsters, meaning the counterattack will be with fewer than a hundred units. In a 100 vs. 100 archmage battle, they will tear through everyone, except for phoenixes, if you take 200 of them (because their growth rate is twice as high :).

That's exactly what I'm saying: an objective assessment of any creature shouldn't be based on who strikes first, because that doesn't make any sense. If a unit has turn priority, why should it attack second?

"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."

In reply to Ley

eXeCuToR

9/27/2007 1:29 PM UTC

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Ley;114432

You have quite the way with words... If we reason as you do, then monsters would always win, but they don't have turn priority, so monsters can only attack first in one single case - with Hydras, and even then, only when they are attacking.
To draw a meaningful conclusion, you need to reason based on the unit's speed, not on who attacks first - that's silly, IMHO.

I meant what Sage said. Ley, you somehow changed my words in such a way that I don't even understand what I said anymore:D I meant that the one with the higher speed attacks first, what's wrong with that? And regarding monsters - that's a separate topic, 80% of them will make even a numerically superior opponent suffer.

Step aside from the way of a better man than you
So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you
Its the servants devotion for the decay
Stand up

There are no flowers on your grave
There are no chains
There I keep chanting for the forgotten name © Amorphis

In reply to Ley

Sage

9/27/2007 2:43 PM UTC

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Ley;114467

That's exactly what I'm saying: an objective assessment of any creature shouldn't be based on who attacks first, because there's no point in that. If a unit has turn priority, why should it attack second?

The speed parameter is also a characteristic of a creature, and a rather important one. And a creature with turn priority will attack first.

Твой дом там, где твоё сердце.
Все люди - братья, но в каждом из нас спит волк.

2DDarkKnight

9/27/2007 3:01 PM UTC

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Angels, in my opinion, will defeat everyone, especially if they are divided into 2 squads and then the dead are resurrected.

Варвары рулят!!

In reply to 2DDarkKnight

Pisak1

9/27/2007 6:16 PM UTC

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Still, it’s better to compare troops not in single units. 10 vs. 10 are normal numbers; in such a battle, all creatures demonstrate their abilities to the fullest. And Archangels won’t defeat monsters, even if you divide them into groups of three. Monsters are an overpowered unit in army vs. army combat.

badping

9/27/2007 6:28 PM UTC

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Archangels won't defeat monsters even if you divide them into groups of three.

Well, that's certainly true... it's hard to argue.
But I just don't understand why compare the strength of creatures in a 10 vs. 10 battle? Is it like saying that Ogres beat Hydras, and Devils beat Angels? :)

And seriously, such a situation is quite rare. This is also due to the fact that the damage always varies: for many 7th-level creatures, its value has a wide range. In addition, you need to consider the probability of a repeat turn, luck, etc.
So, in my opinion, it is impossible to answer such a question. You can only name a group of the best 7th-level creatures, and even then, this will only be fair for that level.
Archangels, of course, will lose to Ogres in a one-on-one battle, but they are always helped by agile Champions, who are not at all comparable to Cyclops, and from the starting positions - Archers and Fanatics. And the hero can cast something unpleasant. Ogres don't have such a cool company...

In reply to badping

Pisak1

9/27/2007 6:52 PM UTC

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Yes, that's all clear. It's just a desire to "compare strengths." That's all. 10 vs. 10 is more sensible than 1 vs. 1. It simply won't depend so much on who goes first. Just try it. And Archangels won't always be the first to move.

In reply to R.3.M.

fenix385

9/27/2007 6:58 PM UTC

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In Heroes 3, they are all practically the same – all upgraded creatures of level 7 have 7 health and deal 300 damage... if someone has less, it is compensated by some very useful abilities... but I'm for the Archangels...

Кто то спросил Эйнштейна:
- Если сжечь 1000 фунтов древесины, то как узнать массу оставшегося дыма???
на что Эйнштейн ответил:
- Приятель - взвесь золу... Все остальное дым...))):)